In this episode, Pastor Cortt Chavis shares his inspiring journey from a military veteran to a passionate church leader and pastor. Cortt discusses the pivotal moments that shaped his decision-making skills and leadership style, emphasizing the importance of personal relationships with God and others. He offers valuable insights on cultivating a culture of effective decision-making within teams and the significance of self-development for young leaders. Tune in for practical advice and powerful stories that will encourage and equip you on your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Ryan, I have been through hell in the last 12 years. Hell I have put my family through, myself through literal hell to be where we are at today and every moment of hell. I had a go from God and a yes from my Pastor and I was fine. Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast. I really hope this episode helps you learn and master the skills you need to grow your leadership, effectiveness, and enjoyment. Be sure to hit the subscribe button to get notified as soon as I post a new session so you don't miss a single episode. I'd also greatly appreciate any reviews, likes, and shares that you can give me. It just helps me extend my reach to more people.
So leaders, I know just how frustrating it can feel when you're in the weeds of work or ministry and life is chaotic. You're struggling to feel effective, and you're just not enjoying leadership as much as you could be. And so to help you, after many years of leadership and executive coaching, I've developed a framework called the Christian Leader Blueprint that'll guide you to find clarity in your life and leadership. It'll help you gain a better rhythm of life, it'll help you see yourself more clearly to leverage your strengths, and you'll produce more productive relationships. It's a step-by-step guide to leadership transformation, and I have that in two formats now. I have a free short guide that you can find on ryanfranklin.org, and I have a book, The Christian Leader Blueprint, which you can find in any format, including an audiobook wherever you buy your books.
I have a few more things on my website that you may be interested in, so just head on over to ryanfranklin.org and check it all out. And now let's get to our session. Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast. On the show today we have a tremendous guest: Pastor Cort Chavis. Cort was born and raised in North Carolina in a ministry-focused home where he learned the ropes of leadership from his father who pastored a thriving church for over 30 years. He married his wife Amanda in 2000, and together they've worked alongside his father for several years, gaining invaluable experience in church leadership.
In 2004 he served in a combat tour in Iraq in the U.S. military. And then in 2006, Cort felt a call to the evangelistic field which led him and his family to travel all across the U.S. and internationally preaching and singing. In 2012 he and his wife founded Truth Chapel in Logansville, Georgia, where God has done remarkable work through him in a short period of time, leading to growth and big community impact.
Cort is known for his passionate preaching— that's how I met him for the first time from a distance in the pulpit— and his tremendous singing. And it actually makes me mad when I hear a phenomenal preacher who can just break out in song spur of the moment because it's such a tremendous and impactful thing. I'm just kidding about that; I'm happy that he's able to do that. But it's a privilege to have him on the show today.
So Cort, welcome man! What an honor to be here! Thank you so much for all the kind words; I've been a fan of your show for quite a while now. So I'm just really honored to be here with you today and hope I can say something to help somebody out there. And again, what a privilege and an honor.
Well thank you Cort! I've admired you from afar; we've talked a few times on occasion but not in great detail. I've admired you from afar for what you have done in the past and what you're still doing moving into the future as a leader. Also, I just want to say thank you for your service in the military; I know that was likely a very tough season in your life, and you did that for us— for your country— so thank you for that.
So you have an interesting background: you're a veteran in the military; as I mentioned you've assisted your father who was a pastor; you've done very well in music; you've evangelized for years— all of that, in my opinion, was sort of preparing you for the next season of your life which was pastoring. Can you share some key moments of your journey that you feel like led you to start your church and move into that pastoral leadership?
Well if you've never heard my story about how the Lord called me into evangelizing...you know, I started leading worship very young— at the age of like 14— when I was at my dad's church. Of course that kind of grew into more ministry; I wasn't necessarily a preacher per se; I did not really preach— that was my older brother Brock who is one of my favorite preachers still today— so I didn't really feel like I'm going to be a preacher.
I knew the Lord had called me; there were very significant moments in my childhood and early teens where I really felt the call of God on my life but I really felt like that was for music—that God was going to use me in that facet—in that calling—and gifting.
However around probably around the time that probably the first year of marriage when Amanda first got married—I had spent little time outside of church—I kind of backslid for lack of better word—and spent some time just kind of doing my own thing; went to college—secular college—and just was being wild.
I really came back to the Lord; when I did come back to God—really had focus on His Word—I was really focused on what I believed; growing up in church it was really like my dad's religion or my grandfather's religion which I love them—I respected them—but it was more like theirs.
When I came back to God—really dedicated my life—I said: "You know what? I don't really know The Word; I don't really know or know what I believe." So during this time began feeling something deep down inside spiritually—I talked about it with Amanda; mentioned it to my father; went on fasts praying like: "Lord! What are You doing?" You know? But feeling like there's something else.
I worked at an oil company; regular everyday guy who sang at church; worship leader at church—that was my role—that was my job—and didn't feel anything other than that until all of sudden out of nowhere came this pressure—I didn't know what do with it!
And thought: "Is The Lord calling me? But I'm not even preaching!" It was just kind of weird season when God called me into evangelism because that's what He wanted me doing but didn’t think so!
It happened one random Sunday—we had been praying—me and Amanda—and prophet Johnny Garrison was at our church during his message he came over before he came over—I heard someone say "Go!" It was very audible! Turned around thinking someone said it but no one there!
He stopped preaching walked over said: "God told you—to go." That moment changed everything—it changed my life! No matter whatever happens I'll always remember that moment—the reality behind it!
There's power remembering those moments when you're questioning calling or gifting or purpose remembering those moments saying: "That really happened!"
Then went through six years confused because dad would say: "We'll pray about it," wise man he is—but told me no consistently! So I'd question: "Did this happen? Was it God? Did eat something bad?"
And everything else felt bitter if couldn't do this then nothing else mattered! Working job—in military—as weekend warrior National Guard—and loved military—but had no clue I'd go overseas!
Then several years into evangelistic career prayed: "Whenever this changes for me..." because one worst things we can do is beat dead horse continuing something that's over with! We preach about seasons but terrified seasons because means something has end for something begin!
One morning woke up going evangelize but almost gone! Struggled with it week or two like: "What is going on?" Didn't want leave family! Would go churches fall love people think: "This is great church!"
I'd see myself standing pulpit as pastor saying: "What is this?" Then The Lord reminded me told Him if ever changed then this would feel—said well Lord gotta talk Amanda cause she’s never lived away home!
We lived nice land with pond front yard like life good! My evangelistic career way up not way down! So everything seemed fine but questioning if should plant church or stay put?
So after talking privately began praying—we loved Charleston SC talked about it—we loved San Antonio TX riverwalk area—we ended up Atlanta but lot stories behind why ended there!
When went talk father nervous invited Amanda said going alone didn’t want embarrassment—but wanted conversation so went parents house sat kitchen talked sundries then said: “Hey listen called meeting important tell guys!”
“I’m going come out say it: Me Amanda feel God wants us start church.” First words father mouth were “Yes!” Said waiting for this moment! Pouring spirit out!
At mom’s kitchen having moment thinking wow—you never appreciate value yes until told no lot! That yes has power knowing sitting there this would be revival church 100%!
No doubt mind having go from God yes from pastor—all hell been through last twelve years literally hell family put through literal hell today every moment hell!
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Now back podcast roll over sleep because got go from God yes from pastor signifies who am gives strength make through those moments where like man let’s wrap up—not going way thought would go!
You know Cort I've never heard church planner say easy—you sit here say went through hell grow effective church you're pastor going tough stuff if you're pastor going tough stuff absolutely!
But can't help think military training father evangelizing seeing types churches walks life mind keeps going military experience how feel impacted character development ability do hard things?
Military changed me—not too much secret talked over last five six years life but young wounded family member tough season lost childhood developed anger distrust authority had authority problems!
My mom dad contest little rebelliousness going huh? Very rebellious angry felt like life stolen from me but developed mindset trauma careful trauma justify actions!
Realized trauma became justification powerful statement people using trauma childhood broken marriage tough relationship lost family member will use loss justify attitude spirit they live with—even sin!
You don’t wish trauma anyone wish live through it—but careful will shift trauma justification—that's what felt justified actions powerful statement!
People don’t say out loud live out loud watch pastoral position see people live justifications every day—not judging them honest say hey don’t right treat people act way live outside boundaries commandments God because hurt mother treated certain way lost family member—
I hear grace truth trying bring reality can’t victim moment we’ve all been victims something everyone listening both been victim something where decide live though question changes lives where do want live?
Do want live inside defining moment—that's what was huge problem authority got trouble school too many mention joined military come college wasted money embarrassed parents embarrassed myself got back church didn’t mean ask anybody went recruiter signed up didn’t know why needed something adjust mentality used military helped understand authority helped shut mouth helped get last word also helped leadership!
Helped realize stronger thought mentally physically broke down built back up went combat unit M1A1 tanker school Fort Knox Kentucky anyone watching listening ever been Fort Knox got two words agony misery two mountains made climb almost every day rough place no let up 17 weeks OSIT training one stop unit training wasn’t like did six weeks basic left AIT barracks evenings off trained hard pure hell rite passage break break platoons made platoon leader really because get job done develop teams good putting people charge making happen decisions okay let’s make happen let’s get done never felt way jumped three ranks basic unheard jumped E2 time already met board got PFC immediately gave confidence loved blowing stuff up being big machine throughout even when stateside training California one first Guard units beat OP4 played war two weeks desert beat OP4 excited amazing good whatever didn’t know put top list go Iraq get home Courtney two weeks old drill weekend colonel tank got off tank said hey we’re going Iraq meeting today remember saying nah might go Iraq not going Iraq like God's not gonna do this gonna evangelist moving life things happening love stateside don’t join combat wrong spent year combat Iraq early 2004 wild everything think police cities connect holy men find bad guys Iran border Diyali province Iraq job basically police border weapons fighters coming Iran sending them all over job police piece land pretty wild bombed like 187 times dropped mortar rounds camp over 180 times wow changed me again leadership move communicate well everybody has be same sheet music room heroes individuals move unit accomplish unit fail unit win unit train all muscle memory train do over again stateside get combat zone don’t even think just quick reactionary driven brain lies dormant until needed learned lot myself Iraq realized fit wanted change some things thinking mindset tell people time learned Iraq displeased concerned ministry personal relationship Him wow crossroads realized wanted more out me gonna do more couldn’t use me like needed few things gave few things changed mentality mindset became humble didn’t think problem humility knew true humility looked until thing starts birthing heart really knew looked felt place cared didn’t care ever evangelized didn’t care preached didn’t care heard any music written cared world being good saint good husband good father child meant world me sounds broke down again military training broke built ground floor building again absolutely opinion positive impacts character specific things grew year Iraq years after truly developed help move leadership role pastor?
Think greatest taught even power do want do right thing lot people don’t how feels never had power do want do somebody told somebody talking elder talking someone went TV show whatever can believe did said whatever elder told said judge them idea would say someone gave opportunity feel one things learned Iraq even power want do make right decision doing right always right doesn’t matter hurts matters happy made decision nothing else day happy made decision not something else.
So if don’t mind steer rabbit hole decision making yeah huge part leadership obviously big part learned throughout experiences early adulthood decision making big impression upon produced good results ministry especially last fourteen years how think decision making whether good bad impact leader wants significant church Christian organization?
Whether good bad what does decision making do how impact leader when decision making unconditional vices being leadership going make decisions there’s no way around number one afraid make decisions rough road leadership because unconditional gonna make decisions order leader gonna make decisions worst thing find leader credentials maybe position maybe ear people struggle make decisions when need made drives people crazy drives people insane ruin team ruin reputation yeah yes gotta make decision think too parameters decision making how make decisions key how make decisions gonna make decisions.
This is not podcast about need make decisions or not yes let’s go there what some good parameters habits what’s some good decision making habits? Good decision making habits speak pastor's position think probably fold envelope maybe CEOs youth pastors real estate agents whatever whatever leader listening these things fold help way number one gonna make decisions so question number one need control parameters decision making some decisions super simple gonna clear gonna be no fog one two decisions crystal need parameters great moments great moments are great but gonna moments where have make decision affect entire industry everybody affected leaders affected gonna affected gotta make decision first thing can’t make decision bubble cannot make without kind outside parameters will say outside parameters number one is God faced tough decision gotta pray about but pray specifically here’s one things struggle leaders honestly Ryan struggle Christians don’t know pray super spiritualized very undereducated pray we pray willy nilly biblical way pray parameters biblical context help us prayer James says this James says man wants wisdom ask God liberally give wisdom promise Bible however see praying outcome praying wisdom difference praying outcome praying wisdom if get wisdom might find outcome desired greatly worst possible outcome not good teamchurch future destiny calling purpose wisdom powerful knowledge world love read listen podcasts always cramming brain knowledge however knowledge means nothing don’t wisdom so always pray wisdom pray give wisdom faced decision making can’t make alone parameters who involved this number one has talk God ask God details situation prayer specifics details details involved drama involved situation involved Lord need wisdom situation facts need facts look introspectively play role question role question role question role question role emotional intelligence yeah emotional intelligence relational intelligence—it’s life changing actually extremely simple honest yourself feeling role doing attitude concept however extremely hard people get yeah well hard honest self gotta say hey said tone set tone set attitude set set set set set set set set set set set set
The third question Cy Wakeman says is what does great look like? So I'm making decision as pastor third question myself is if I'm greatest pastor world what would do right now? If they made magazine pastors top hundred pastors world COVID what would guy do? What's crazy is we know answer already up here—we know how be great—but never access part God given greatness inside especially called minister pastor preacher leader put greatness inside us God's not giving pulling things out us like God's not giving something developing already us it's there but if never ask yourself question then don't know answer what best dad world would do moment best pastor leader if best friend world would do situation?
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And if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. That's not your room. Well, and not only that. And we've got to start moving towards a close here. We're getting close to an hour. But this has been so good.
When I think about effective leaders, I think about people who effectively delegate. You know, if I'm the smartest guy in the room, and everybody is looking to me, it's gonna be hard to delegate authority, to delegate tasks, to delegate those things and grow effectively grow an organization. And so how do we work this into our culture court, to be able to have good decision makers, not only for me to be a good decision maker, but to work that into our culture so that we can continue to scale as a team, as a congregation, you know, an organization? How can we work that into and cultivate that into our culture?
Well, I think it takes intentionality and willingness and trust. You know, I would say to any leader watching or listening, when me and Ryan were talking about these moments of letting people challenge you, ask the hard question. If that made you nervous, it made you sweat a little bit. You probably need to reevaluate your team because if you're not comfortable with your team not agreeing with you like you, you're probably not going to move much further than where you currently are. I hope you like it because that's where you're going to be.
You have to be intentional about this. You have to develop trust. And if this is something that... Most of us struggle with this thing because of one simple word, and that is ego. And ego is only one letter away from being egg, which represents the fragility of who we are. Our ego, you know, it's... Know where it's fragile. Our ego is fragile and it would destroy some of us for someone to say, "Yo, I don't like that." You know, I think that's a bad idea because of this, this and this.
You know, I always say, "Hey man, you know, be respectful in your comments." But man, please tell me what you think because if you tell me what you think and we can have a little dialogue back and forth—maybe even, you know, as Patrick Lencioni would call it—unfiltered dialogue in the Five Dysfunctions of a Team; that unfiltered dialogue... It's so important for us to hash out. Hey, let's hash this out. Let's talk about this.
And if I can't be challenged, I think this is probably a little more personal work than teamwork. What I mean by that is... I would agree with that. Yeah. Leaders have to make this adjustment internally. I need to be able to let people challenge me. I need to be able to let people hear my thoughts and say... Was it Simon Sinek in the book Leaders Eat Last? I think in that book he talks about speaking last—like being the last one to speak in a meeting.
And you know, I try—I don't always do that—but I really try. Like if we got something that we're trying to discuss—I just start by saying "Hey what do you guys think?" I want to hear what you have to say because if I speak first I've already kind of diluted the waters; no one wants to challenge what I said.
Exactly. I like to encourage people to stay curious longer. I like that when you're in a meeting as a leader because like you said when a leader speaks a lot of times people will sort of bow to what they want. And so if a leader can learn to stay curious longer and just ask questions of curiosity from their team it'll sort of draw even the best out of people and out of individuals in that room.
Yeah. Well, I have a staff meeting every Wednesday and we start the staff meeting by affirmations. We go around the table—it's about 10 or 12 of us—and we go around the table and we just start with gratitude; something good happened—we just start with gratitude—but we end every one of those meetings with unfiltered dialogue.
And some Wednesdays it's easy; it's like "Oh everybody's good," we move on. But sometimes it's like "Hey! I don't like this that we're doing" or "Someone made me feel some kind of way." This was my role and then I found out later that so-and-so had done it—and then it kind of made me feel a certain way.
Those moments unite us. That unfiltered dialogue time of our meetings are some of the best decision-making moments because what you need to make good decisions is honesty—truth and honesty—and you really get that in unfiltered dialogue. You get what people are really thinking; how they really feel—not like an animated version of what's going to keep you happy or what's going to make me look good or what's going to continue my role on this team.
My desire is for you to challenge me every once in a while and let me know that you're thinking as well—that you're a leader who deserves to be at this table and not just a follower who... I can say jump and you'll say how high?
Now, I know that may seem crazy to somebody because we have this context of "I'm the man of God" and whatever I say goes—but here's the deal: This changed my life—and I know we're running out of time—but let me just say this one thing—and I think it plays into this moment.
I am not the coach of my team—and that changes the entire dynamic of what I think about myself as a pastor. I'm not the coach of this church; I'm not because the coach puts on the suit and stands on the sideline watching everybody play—and that's not what I do.
I'm not the coach of my team; I'm not the coach of my church—I'm actually a player! Now—I may be the captain of the team—yes—I’ll give myself that—but I'm putting up shots too! I'm invested in this! I'm working!
I will clean tables or preach a sermon; it doesn't matter to me—wherever I get in—I fit in! God is my coach—and his playbook has always been the Bible—and if I want to... If I need to be reminded of a play—it’s in that book! It’s in there somewhere!
And if I can't get the play directly from the sheets then I need to talk to my coach and say "Hey! What should we do in this moment?" But a lot of pastors—and a lot of leaders—and I'm not trying to condemn anybody—please hear me—hear my heart—a lot... A lot of pastors I've met—they really feel like they're the coach—that they're... You know—I'm just telling everybody what to do—you know do what I say—and get over here—and do that—put up that shot—do this!
And what it does—it disconnects the players from the team—it disconnects the players! Yeah! I'm on the court with you! And if I'm the coach—if I'm the coach then I don't really get invited to the after-party do I?
And if I'm the coach then my level of celebration is different than yours—I celebrate but I'll celebrate with guys in suits—you know what I mean? And I've seen many churches where it's like—we have different sets of people—we hang around with guys in suits while they hang around with players—and there's such a disconnect in the kingdom of God between pulpit and pew.
But when you have camaraderie—and everybody feels like you're part of a team—it endears you—to them—and they don't mind coming up telling you what they felt like you've done wrong so that you can be better.
Well—I’m hearing in your voice Court—is relationship! When we move towards building more productive relationships—in our ministry—in our leadership—it creates a culture full of good things—including decision-making—but delegation—authenticity—vulnerability—you know when we're building more productive relationships—we're going see positive fruit—in our lives—and we're going build and grow our organizations!
Right? Absolutely! So—I want to ask you one last question—but first—I just want check-in with you: Anything else on anything we've talked about—or decision making—or anything else—that you'd want touch on before moving into my last question that's unrelated really?
I don’t really have anything other than just for leaders who may be listening—to consider doing some self-work before teamwork! Get yourself where you need—to be—and then all other stuff will come naturally—that's it! Personal growth is critical for all!
Absolutely! Last question—and it can relate or not relate but I'm curious: What advice would you give young leaders who may be listening who are just starting their journey—in ministry? What advice would give them?
The first thing I'd say is develop your relationship with God more than ministry! At very young age it's easy get caught up—in ministry—in position—in place—in licensing or whatever—that kind makes lose relationship God along way!
So I'd say number one: Fight for your personal relationship with God! Number two: Be reader—read lots; listen books! If struggle read page—get Audible; it's cheap; less than 20 bucks month! Get it!
If you're not leader right now but just leadership role under several leaders—then I'd say one number one book read is The 360 Degree Leader by John Maxwell—it really helped when was with dad—not being guy but seeing how could effective from any place within movement—I could influential those places!
I think that's good! Read How To Win Friends And Influence People by Dale Carnegie—I always say read it; when done reading it just start over again! I've been reading every year for little over 20 years now sometimes read twice year!
For young leaders your self-development is powerful because other people—as grow ministry—as calling—other people depend on—you gotta make sure foundation solid!
Because stacking—the stacking… One thing had do moving here Atlanta starting church was work on myself; put time answering tough questions about myself; looking mirror being honest; reading books hurt feelings like Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud!
Yeah—reading books stab heart like Five Dysfunctions Of A Team by Patrick Lencioni—the Advantage by Patrick Lencioni—all those books—you’re honest when read those books—you gotta check yourself!
And for young leaders that's greatest things can do everybody who potentially lead future—is how lead yourself now—the time put every week,every day,every month put yourself—to add value own mind—to own level understanding!
Get yourself some good mentors; talk people doing want do—you know ask them "Hey how did get here? What advice give?" Whatever may be don’t afraid ask don’t afraid approach!
There’s generation my age group—I’m 45—and there's generation guys love pour younger guys their 20s teens 30s—we're not afraid tell mistakes failures wins—we'll share anything!
We'll share what we've learned take advantage opportunity if ability take advantage opportunity! Ultimately what I'd speak young leaders finalizing with this—is learn develop skill—not taking personal!
Yeah—it’s not personal! And think that's gonna help As matter fact—you want know more about then go maybe podcast somewhere maybe YouTube as well called David's Greatest Skill—you can listen message or lesson just talk!
But I'd encourage every young leader develop skill—not taking personal because going feel like is—but it's not!
Yeah tremendous advice! Tremendous advice! Hope every young leader listening podcast taking notes really taking those things heart because every them true!
So Court if people want connect online future where can find?
Yeah so I'm really only on Instagram—that's at courtchavis—I have Twitter handle but hardly ever anything on there—I have Facebook but rarely anything on there… So really at Court Chambers Instagram biggest place interact whatever!
And probably by 2025 will revamp YouTube channel probably start personal podcast myself—but also if want hear messages preaching teaching Wednesday nights go Truth Chapel podcast—it’s just services messages… So if ever want hear preaching Bible study time—all that's Truth Chapel Pocket.
Yeah I'll put link show notes Instagram church podcast link too! Well thank so much Court giving us time greatly appreciate time today!
Thank so much appreciate you! And so concludes show today—my name Ryan Franklin thank so much joining us Christian Leader Made Simple Podcast.
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