In this episode, Dr. Brent Coltharp shares his journey as a ministry leader, exploring the importance of effective time management, self-leadership, and continuous learning. He offers practical strategies to overcome imposter syndrome and balance multiple responsibilities while fostering personal growth. Brent emphasizes building confidence and the value of supportive voices in leadership. He also discusses the challenges of balancing family time with ministry duties, stressing the need for intentional conversations and adapting to life’s seasons. Additionally, he highlights the importance of leveraging team strengths, managing disappointments, and cultivating productive relationships. Brent concludes with inspiring insights on continuous improvement in leadership and the importance of enjoying the journey.
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Transcript
Ryan Franklin (00:07.165)
Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast. On the show today, we have a special guest, Dr. Brent Colthorpe. Dr. Colthorpe is the lead pastor of First Apostolic Church of Aurora since 2003. He also holds the position of district superintendent of the UPCI Illinois district, providing leadership and guidance to the local churches of Illinois. As president of
Ershin College and Ershin Graduate School of Theology. He plays a pivotal role in shaping future leaders in ministry. Dr. Coulthorpe has earned an MA in Clinical Psychology, an MA in Biblical and Theological Studies, and a Doctorate of Strategic Leadership from Regent University, which in my mind shows his love and his continual commitment to academic excellence.
And he frequently preaches and teaches and writes and shares insights on leadership and ministry across a ton of different platforms. And his work emphasizes the importance of pursuing excellence and effective time management, especially as he juggles the leadership of a ton of ministries. So Dr. Colthorpe, welcome to the show.
Brent Coltharp (01:28.91)
Thank you. It's great to be a part.
Ryan Franklin (01:31.655)
I really appreciate you being willing to do this. know you're, as evidenced by the many hats that you wear, you're a busy man. So we definitely value your time and you being willing to do this podcast.
Brent Coltharp (01:47.278)
Well, it's an honor. is, it's dialogues like this that helped me grow. so, whether it's listening or participating where you have to sort of process a little bit and, dig a little deeper, it's a mutually beneficial thing. So thank you for the opportunity.
Ryan Franklin (02:03.485)
Well, thank you for seeing it through that lens because I agree I enjoy being challenged as well and having opportunities. I know when I preach and teach, sometimes I'm preaching and teaching to myself, or many times I'm preaching and teaching to myself. So thank you for that. So let's just jump into the topic. You're an extremely busy man. You juggle the leadership of a church, a district, and a
thriving and growing not just one school, but two schools. And you manage to make time for even podcasts like this and do all kinds of things. You preach all over. And there's no doubt that you have to be extremely good at managing your time. And this is something that I have a good feeling that this just a part of it as a natural knack for you.
But I would love to just hear a little bit of your story along the way of how you kind of zeroed in on how you were going to effectively juggle all of these things.
Brent Coltharp (03:14.701)
Yes. Thank you. well, you know, all of us have the same amount of time. So 168, doesn't matter whether you're the president of the United States, you know, or you are, in kindergarten, you know, everybody has the same amount of time. And so it's what you do with that time and the choices you make in managing it. And so there's trade-offs that we all have to make in our time. And my, my story,
it, you know, it sort of evolved, as I look back, you know, so many times we look back and through sort of 2020 hindsight, we can see God's hand in things that in the moment we couldn't, you know, obviously we're all wired and in different ways, different personality, temperaments, giftings, all of that. But, my story, and even as I hear you talk about, you know, some of my bio,
It really wasn't a planned out, you know, I had this great strategic plan and A, B, C, D and here, you know, there it was really, through experiences of life, not feeling prepared, feeling inadequate to the task, feeling, you know, sort of like the imposter syndrome at different times that I had to go back and, and, try to grow and, and to get better and to improve. And really what I like to refer to as being a lifetime learner.
You know, I really think that that's sort of become a model for me is to continue to learn. But yeah, when you talk about leadership, you talk about ministry. When I came out of college undergrad, we, Rachel and I, my wife, we traveled for about five years as an evangelist before coming, asked to come in an associate pastor role and coming into pastoral leadership. Wow. What a, what a challenge that was.
All of a sudden I found myself in areas I just didn't feel prepared for in so many ways. Interpersonally, dealing with people, you know, the bigger part of what ministry is, is whether it is one-on-one relationships, whether in a pastoral ministry, it's marriage, family. Didn't feel part of that. That sort of led me to dive into sort of the clinical site program to work with people.
Brent Coltharp (05:34.321)
Of course, biblical studies, my passion, but even leadership, I found myself in pastoral roles and, you know, failing miserably is how I like to say it. You know, we, we catch things, we're taught things, and then we catch things, you know? And I remember coming back, to first apostolic church of war, the poor people here. I came in and probably like any young leader wanted to change the world, you know, in.
And I still want to change the world. think that's something that we all continue to want to do. But, you know, I'm just, I don't really have a playbook for it, you know, which I appreciate you putting out a playbook, a leadership playbook. Didn't really have a lot of those tools and really, and of course we're talking about early mid nineties, which is, it was a different time period, you know, really didn't have a, a lot to go from when it came to leadership.
Most of my training had been in, in, scripture studying scripture, in, Bible college and, it had some pastoral courses. So, but, but just really didn't feel like I was all the way there. And I remember, having an opportunity to lead at the church and to cast vision, right? That's what leaders do. They cast these grand visions. And so I come and I'm going to launch this grand vision. It's going to be a vision Sunday night and, I'm going to put, you know, walk by faith and
put these goals out there, you know, we're going to like double in six months or whatever it was at that time and falling, you know, failing miserably, failing miserably, you know, because my understanding of a vision is, know, you throw out some strong goals, you know, come up with these quantitative measurements of what you're going to do. And you just, you know, sort of speak that out and then got to go do it. And,
Ryan Franklin (07:25.371)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (07:26.925)
And, uh, it didn't happen. And, uh, so that that's embarrassing, right? You say, Hey, here's the mountain we're, we're taking and everybody sort of patchy on the back sounds good. And, uh, and then you realize has the time, uh, creeps by and you get closer and closer to that deadline. That just, you know, it's, it's horrible. It's embarrassing.
Ryan Franklin (07:48.829)
Nobody likes to fail.
Brent Coltharp (07:51.459)
no, no, no, no. And, especially, you know, that it may, guess I, I don't like to fail. Maybe even fear of failure. Some has driven me at times, you know, to prove and get out there. And so, you know, I, and I had an amazing father, who great leader, in fact, so much of who I am and I owe to Bill and Charlene Calthop. And one of the things that helped me
Ryan Franklin (08:02.244)
Absolutely.
Brent Coltharp (08:18.707)
is a dad for 21 years was bivocational. He was a supervisor at Western electric part of the AT &T bell system and a pastor before he went full-time pastoring. And he always had this, every year he would go to a seminar conference or something, that was training equipping. So different from a preaching conference. many times it was outside of our fellowship and
I think that year two, he took me to, actually as a John Maxwell leadership center, John Maxwell was really big in the nineties and, in popular Christian circles, really put in a focus on leadership. And I remember going with him and it just sorta opened up, it broadened my view to realize that, there are some, some tools, there are some things that we have to manage.
to execute, there's other parts than just, you know, speaking a goal or where you want to go. And so that sort of started a journey for me into saying, you know what, Hey, I need to need to be better equipped. need to be more effective, more efficient in the things I'm doing. And it's not just these lag measures of there, but what's lead measures, what gets us there and what executes. And so it started that journey for me. but yeah, it was out of some.
embarrassing failures, things were not going, I was frustrated. Just speaking it, then it get us there and started to dive in a little deeper and to try to grow.
Ryan Franklin (10:00.711)
Yeah. Well, you mentioned imposter syndrome, and that's something that obviously a ton of leaders deal with. Probably, I would venture to say every leader deals with at some point. But that sort of motivated you to continue to learn and pursue degrees, even a doctorate degree in leadership. I would imagine that to some degree,
the imposter syndrome motivated you to move towards those things. At what point did you feel the imposter syndrome sort of lift off of you or has it lifted off of you? you still kind of, you know, deal with that to some degree even today?
Brent Coltharp (10:47.757)
Well, it depends on what day you speak with me. Yeah, exactly right. You know, yeah, maybe even sharing sort of how I think time helps experience helps. you know, what came to my mind, even talking about imposter syndrome is when I was elected the district superintendent in Illinois, I was, I was 38 years old.
Ryan Franklin (10:51.101)
On Monday, maybe so.
Brent Coltharp (11:17.549)
turn 39 like the next week. And I was, by, by far. that, that, in fact, I had just been out of being a youth president, like two years, one term. And I was the youngest on just had elected to the district board. was the youngest person on the district board. And then on the general board, probably about a decade separated me from.
Ryan Franklin (11:20.701)
And I would say that's young for a superintendent,
Brent Coltharp (11:42.743)
from some of what was considered the young guys in that time. Of there's been a lot of change over the last 16 years, but I remember coming home. I was totally shocked. I was not prepared to be put into that role. And to be honest, not only imposter syndrome, I was just scared. I went to district conference that was not on the radar. I didn't even realize that there would be a change. And,
Ryan Franklin (12:01.052)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (12:07.793)
And the voting process of that is so quick and I would imagine that that could catch you off guard pretty quickly. And not knowing what to do in the moment, really.
Brent Coltharp (12:10.881)
Brent Coltharp (12:17.053)
no, no.
No doubt. In fact, I, I almost started to, to, to get up because I thought this was just, you know, it was overwhelming to me. And, Calvin Jean was sitting beside me and he, just sort of grabbed my arm. said, let them decide, you know, type thing. I've never forgiven him for that. No, he is, he is, and a great friend. but I remember coming home and I can picture it right now.
Ryan Franklin (12:36.925)
I love Calvin Jean. He's a tremendous man.
Brent Coltharp (12:48.777)
walking in the sanctuary praying. And I was like, you know, we're the fifth largest district at the time, about 200 works, 450 some ministers. And here I am at that age and it was just God, you know, born out to God. And there's sort of a principle that I believe the Lord spoke to me that has sort of been a governing principle for me in leadership since that point. And it was like, it was like the Lord said to me, you know,
I have prepared you for this time. And it was in prayer, you know, that my mind started to open up to, I didn't realize different experiences, different, training conversations, my life. I began to look back and see, you know what? I didn't know what was going to happen, but God does. And sometimes as we can see, whether it's Israel coming from Egypt to the promised land,
or it's the apostles that the Lord places us in circumstances to develop us. And it's, it became a principle for me that the Lord, you know, sort of revealed to me that day, or I saw it is that God is always preparing us for what's next. We don't know what's next. but we have to have this confidence. And this is where that imposter syndrome came from. Well, I thought, you know, they don't know who they elected. They don't know how.
my weaknesses, know, my shortcomings, all of those things. But God does know and through the experiences in life, God had been preparing. within a period of time, I began to realize, you know what, I can fulfill this role. Not, because just being Brent Coughlin, because God had been these experiences using to shape me, develop me for that time. And so that's always my confidence is
God must know what I need to prepare me for what's next. And we have to be lifetime learners and we have to be realizing we all have challenges. It's just like we're talking about time, 168 hours for everybody. Well, everybody's busy. Everybody has problems. Everybody has troubles. Every stage of life does. You know, when I was young, thought, man, older people didn't have any problems. You know,
Ryan Franklin (14:59.026)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (15:08.909)
Thought if I could get a driver's license or graduate from high school and get married, then man, those were all the challenges of life. And now I pastor and I realized whether you're in your eighties or in your nineties, there are challenges. It's just a different set of challenges. Each stage has its own challenges. And so that's where I became to believe that wherever I'm at, I need to keep growing, keep developing in every way possible.
Ryan Franklin (15:14.479)
Life would be good, right?
Brent Coltharp (15:35.861)
Because in doing so, God is preparing me for whatever I'm going to face tomorrow, next week, next year, whether it's the church, my family, my personal life, He's preparing me for it.
Ryan Franklin (15:47.367)
That's tremendous that you allowed yourself to maintain and even to this day to maintain a growth mindset. There's so many people that have fixed mindsets and the reality of it is, is we can continue to grow even at your age, even at your positions that you have. You need to keep growing and it's critical that you keep working your mind, growing your mind, preparing yourself for whatever's next in your future.
Brent Coltharp (16:17.847)
Well, I think, what helped me is my dad never stopped growing. You know, he was an eighties and, was, was no longer full-time ministry, but just a tremendous help. But everywhere he was at, you would see that briefcase and I can guarantee you in his briefcase would be at least two books. And it didn't matter if he had to sit in a waiting room for 15 minutes, never bothered him. That book was coming out and, I saw him never feel like he had arrived, always wanted to grow.
And the fact is, is there's always more to learn. and if the more we learn, the more we realize there is to learn. We don't know it all. And not only that, but the world is always changing. So you might be the best at what you do right now, but if you make the best buggy whips in the world right now, somebody's going to invent an automobile and that's going to be obsolete.
Ryan Franklin (17:02.727)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (17:14.921)
So we have to continue to develop and prepare ourselves for, what's next.
Ryan Franklin (17:21.991)
So for the young leader, maybe it's somebody in Bible school that is stepping into their first youth pastor position, or maybe it's a youth pastor who's moving out of that into becoming a senior pastor or an associate pastor or whatever, whatever the case may be. Somebody is facing their next step in leadership, and they're facing this imposter syndrome.
And I hear you say that you just sort of pushed through this. Is there any other practical wisdom that you could give somebody in that position that, is it talking to somebody? What's some practical wisdom that you could give somebody that's having fear and feeling that imposter syndrome as they move into that role?
Brent Coltharp (18:18.007)
Yeah, I would say a couple of things helped me is first of all, this is walking by faith. You know, we might not think of this as faith, but it's walking by faith is saying, if this is where God's placed me, I'm going to walk in it and I'm going to walk in confidence. My confidence is not just in me, but the one who sees me, I think also is if you are in a leadership role like that to realize that somebody else has confidence in you.
There's a pastor, there's a leader that sees things in you that you might not see in yourself. because sometimes, we can, undermine ourselves. You know, we can, we all can deal with our own emotional baggage, our insecurities, whatever's out there. And we need other voices in our lives. And so sometimes my confidence comes, it always comes from God. It comes from, Hey, there are people out there that they feel like you can do this.
And so I'm also going to trust the body of Christ. You know, I'm going to trust the elders, the leaders in my life, the body of Christ, those who are making some of that decision as well and feel like that they have confidence in that course. have the shared knowledge of a group that that's taken place as well. And then I think too, as you go older, you, you do see experiences that you have had lessons learned and successes that you've had, and that gives you confidence as well. So
the next challenge that I go into, you know, whatever tomorrow holds or next year holds, maybe it's here at the church, a leadership challenge. Maybe it's at the school or leadership challenge. I have to go in feeling confident. First of all, that I'm there, God, the body elders in that I can also look back and see where God has brought me through. And the challenges that I didn't see how I was going to make it through how I was overwhelmed at the time, but Lord, the Lord was faithful. We made it through.
Ryan Franklin (20:02.055)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (20:14.561)
And we're going to make it through the next one. I think confidence builds, faith grows too, as, as he demonstrates faithfulness and you make it through.
Ryan Franklin (20:24.029)
I'm also hearing your voice. I think that the fear of the Lord is driving, is more prominent in your mind than the fear of men. That helps you move forward. Occasionally, you have somebody like a Calvin Jeans sitting next to you, ironically, and they can grab your arm and say, just trust him. Just remind you a little bit, trust him.
Brent Coltharp (20:39.853)
You
Brent Coltharp (20:46.871)
You know, and that, you know, when you bring that back up, I tease, him about that and talk about that, but there is no doubt when I look back now that he could have saved me from making a mistake because I was sort of overwhelmed at the time. I was a little embarrassed, you know, I know, who do you think you are to be able to lead this district? You know, maybe my insecurities and, and that hand.
possible. And when I look back in time, because I do believe now in reflection, I've been where God wanted me to be. And so I look back and think, you know, very well, just a hand like that could have kept me from making a mistake. And so I would even encourage leaders, you know, when we're making decisions like that, we do need other voices in our life. We do need perspective in our life. The Bible talks a lot about counsel and we need that counsel.
And it's the council of not telling somebody what we're doing, but true council where we are open to receive input and guidance.
Ryan Franklin (21:53.053)
That's good. That's good. So moving back to your, we took a little rabbit trail there. So let's get back to your time and your responsibilities. You know, you're balancing a lot as pastor, superintendent, college president. What's your secret? What's your practical secrets in balancing this effectively?
Brent Coltharp (22:14.189)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (22:17.847)
Well, I don't know that they're secrets, but they are disciplines and they are those that I've had to put in place a little bit at a time. You know, as I, in fact, from like podcasts like this or books, here, somebody who has shared some area that helped them with productivity and effectiveness or efficiency and just incorporate to find what fits me and what works with me. You know, I would say, first of all, even,
connecting it back to talking about leaders going into different roles. We have to realize that no matter what our role and responsibility is, no matter what job description we're filling at the time, the first person we have to lead is ourselves. If I can't lead Brent Cawthoff, I can't lead anybody else. It doesn't matter what the title is. Doesn't matter what the organization is. The first person I have to lead is me. And so that also has to be the top priority is leading me. And so,
you know, in leadership, we start realizing we can't make everybody happy. We won't make everybody happy. In fact, I don't know who it was that had that definition is that learning to disappoint people at a pace that they can handle, you know, sometimes is what leadership does. So I have to recognize that, you know, we, we want to be liked, we want everybody to be happy, but that's just never going to happen. And so I have to make sure I know whose voices and where my priority has to be. And it has to be first with myself.
leading myself. And so my daily disciplines of, you know, getting up in the morning, my, my private time of personal growth and spiritual growth. Yeah. Well, for me, I don't pray the first thing in the morning because I, I tend to fall asleep real, real early in the morning. So, I get up and, to, me, you know, let the dogs out. have three dogs. And so,
Ryan Franklin (23:55.293)
What's it look like?
Ryan Franklin (24:04.317)
I feel your pain on that one.
Brent Coltharp (24:14.741)
let them out, make some coffee. And then I start with my Bible reading and I'm going to spend time in Bible reading. And then I'm going to go to some type of personal growth book. I'm reading typically two or three books at a time. But that in that morning, I'll have one that is going to growth and development, you know, whether it is spiritual leadership.
you know, something of that nature, but it's challenging girl thing. So I want to make sure I get those before I ever leave the house. Then after that, I can do some time in prayer.
Ryan Franklin (24:48.509)
Do have a certain time allotment for Bible reading and for growth reading? Or do you just read until you want to stop?
Brent Coltharp (24:53.793)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (24:57.517)
I try to get at least a chapter a day. Now again, as you know, from books that depending on the book, technical part of it or whatever, some chapters, you know, it's a difference between a 50 page chapter and a 20 page chapter, but let's try to get that segment in there, you know, in that morning, spend some time in prayer.
Ryan Franklin (25:00.186)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (25:10.492)
Right, right.
Ryan Franklin (25:16.145)
Just something to chew on through the day.
Brent Coltharp (25:19.051)
Yeah. And something I just, here's what I learned. I learned that just having a daily system like that, when you look at it at the end of the year, what you accomplish. I remember in grad school, you know, I had to read so much reading back when I was in grad school at Wheaton. And I mean, I was burned out from reading afterwards, you know, and everybody telling you what to read, not to read the things you choose to read. And I remember the next year,
I just decided to read a chapter, at least a chapter a day. And, and sometimes I'd read a couple of chapters, but time, cause I do read sometimes at lunch, sometime in the evening too. And I found out I actually read more the next year than I had in grad school, because instead of these chunks I was going to have, I just made it that daily discipline. And it really made me a believer that every day you'd be surprised about how much you can read.
Not a long period of time, but if you're doing a chapter a day, you know, day in and day out. that helps me to keep a discipline where I'm just not waiting till I need something, you know, sort of thing out of the overflow. I'm always putting things in, uh, to have even, you know, sometimes what you're reading in the morning when you're having lunch with somebody or a conversation and a meeting with somebody, you're going to process some of that. And so you're growing even throughout the day. Um, but after, after the reading parts and prayer time,
Ryan Franklin (26:19.197)
That's good. That's good.
Brent Coltharp (26:45.035)
I do hit the gym. pretty, four or five days a week. I'm going to hit, hit the gym for at least an hour. and that's a part of putting myself in and my health first. my sleep is pretty structured as well. I try to go to bed about the same time every single night. And if I don't, I start to feel it and other people feel it.
Ryan Franklin (26:57.511)
That's good.
Ryan Franklin (27:06.705)
How many hours of sleep do you require? Or is optimal for you?
Brent Coltharp (27:09.725)
yeah, I need seven. I need seven. I go to bed and try to be in bed by 11. and then, you know, I typically wake up without an alarm, but I try to stick to that no matter where I'm at. I would love to go bed a little bit earlier and get up earlier. Cause I know, you know, some of that early morning times, but I found for me, with conferences and church and stuff like that, 11.
Ryan Franklin (27:14.365)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (27:19.058)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (27:37.517)
It seems to be that sweet spot that I can manage even when I'm on the road. I can typically get about there. So,
Ryan Franklin (27:41.521)
Yeah. So that helps you be consistent, whether you're traveling or not.
Brent Coltharp (27:46.059)
Yeah. Right. And I can tell, you know, in fact, people that are with me can tell. Cause if it gets, I might can do a few days at general conference or something, but typically, you know, that's the truth. I get miserable and I think other people around me get miserable. It's just, I, it just, I start shutting down and so, learning that, but learning those rhythms, you know, I can't be like somebody else.
Ryan Franklin (27:51.377)
Yeah.
Look at 1105. You better watch out.
Brent Coltharp (28:12.843)
I know people that they can stay at one or two and however that works for them is fine, but I have to be me. And, so I'll hit the gym and then shower and then I'm in the office. So I do some of my work before I ever come to the office. And, and then as far as productivity through the week, I have an ideal week, to, show you the structure. It's a, it's a spreadsheet and it's what my perfect week looks like. Now I've
I don't know if I've ever had the perfect week executed because there's always things of life that disrupt it. However, I found I'm much more productive because I have that template that I'm working from to get things done.
Ryan Franklin (28:48.06)
Right.
Ryan Franklin (28:56.093)
What's that look like? Is that like blocked time for certain things?
Brent Coltharp (28:59.885)
Oh yeah. Yes. Again, my personality, I like to block at least three hour blocks to get really sort of maybe Cal Newport would talk like deep work done. Uh, and so I can do administrative stuff in a, a, in a, in an hour, you know, email stuff like that. But when I'm going to work on something substantive, I want to, I want a three hour block.
Ryan Franklin (29:06.653)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (29:21.393)
Does people interaction drain you or fill you? Do you get more energy being around people or does it drain you?
Brent Coltharp (29:30.039)
I'm more introverted in the work day, you know, but.
Ryan Franklin (29:34.567)
So your social stamina would be relatively low then.
Brent Coltharp (29:39.637)
Yeah. Yeah. Except, you know, more small groups, you know, now, now Rachel, who is, Rachel is amazing. You know, she just thrives and she carries us when it comes to large social groups, you know, I get energized with small groups. So if we're sitting at a table, five, six people, we're talking about search. We're talking about leadership. I'm there. I'm energized. but large, large social settings are.
Ryan Franklin (29:40.848)
Okay.
Ryan Franklin (29:44.679)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (30:09.053)
So the reason in asking that is when you structure your time through your week, I know you're regularly having to meet with people. So do you build purposeful times in between segments of meeting with people to kind of reset yourself a long time, that sort of thing?
Brent Coltharp (30:31.489)
Yes. And, and, and yeah, great, great point. Yeah. Meetings are very much part of what I have to do. a lot of meetings, but I do put those blocks in there. So for, for instance, to me, it might be a lunch hour, and I'm a nap person. I, I love to, take it. I can lay down and go dead sleep and wake up in 20 minutes in in a afternoon.
Ryan Franklin (30:45.735)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (30:57.077)
And so sometimes it's me getting a bite to eat, taking a 20 minutes just to rest, even if I'm not going to sleep, just resting, relaxing, and I'm ready to go resets me. Yeah. And if I have those, and if I can put those blocks of time where I can focus, scatter them through that, that's a benefit to me. So for my ideal week, Tuesday is typically my heavy meeting day in that that's my one-on-ones. So
Ryan Franklin (31:05.341)
That just resets you. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (31:25.085)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (31:26.091)
direct reports, we are going to have a one-on-one and that's both the church and, and the institution, staff meeting that is all built into that day. So Tuesday's a meeting day, but yet, you know, I have other times where they're not heavy meetings. That's the time where I'm going to be focused more on what I have to do and content of productivity. And so just putting that out, it works with a rhythm for me. found the rhythm that works for me.
And as long as I can have that interspersed, it works well.
Ryan Franklin (32:02.941)
Where do you find time for rest and play?
Brent Coltharp (32:07.117)
Okay. Well, uh, rest, probably my structure, uh, with as far as the sleep, but as far as I have to be intentional about, um, for instance, our vacations, uh, six months apart, we take two weeks of vacation to back to back weeks twice a year. So, uh, may and November it spread out. I'm going to miss two Sundays. And so our, uh,
Ryan Franklin (32:27.901)
That's good.
Brent Coltharp (32:35.437)
Our team knows that a congregation I'm going to miss two Sundays. And, uh, that is the sort of a long-term, uh, then I try to build in throughout the year two of my family and our traveling, maybe going to speak somewhere a day here, a day there, uh, to, build that in, uh, along with recreation time, for instance, like in my family time, we're at a different stage of life. have a 16 year old at home. My other three children, they're married. They're out of the home. You know, he goes with me.
we go to the gym together. know, so we exercise, we have that time together on a daily basis, but we have daily, weekly, and then quarterly.
Ryan Franklin (33:09.245)
That's good. So you're having daily conversations with him at the gym and you're able to interact with him and just talk about life as you're doing something productive with your time as well. Or something different and productive, both are productive.
Brent Coltharp (33:16.033)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (33:24.427)
Yeah, especially the, yeah, especially the trip to and and from, know, in the car, there's a lot of great conversation that takes place in the car.
Ryan Franklin (33:36.401)
Yeah. So in your day-to-day, I'm hearing that you take segments to play tacked on to a ministry trip or whatever. Do you feel like that it's important to find that time to play and do things other than productivity in your week? Or does the occasional suffice you?
Brent Coltharp (34:06.335)
No, you know, and to be completely honest, this is probably the area that I have struggled most with and that Rachel. Yeah, no. And I'm telling you, Rachel, Rachel is such a help because she will still bring it to my attention. you know, for instance, at our church, we take, we don't schedule anything on Mondays, Monday nights. It's family night the whole year long where we're not going to schedule things on Monday night. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (34:13.69)
I'm asking you because I struggle with this.
Ryan Franklin (34:33.233)
We do the same here at POA.
Brent Coltharp (34:36.245)
And so, you know, of course we try to have a Monday night, family night, game night. My, one of my sons now lives back in the area, bite them over. But you know, the, the problem with life is, is that there's always disruptions, you know, and the flexibility to be able to figure out, okay, this didn't work out how our ideal week is a Monday night, family game night, but getting together for meals, you know, together.
So that's one of the things that we do try to make sure is our meal time together. the kids on the weekend, you know, from after Sunday to me, after Sunday, Sunday lunch is us getting together as a family time, you know, so I don't do a lot really church as, as much as going out with my family, especially that they're here, picking, a day in the week to do some activity. I struggle with it.
It's something that I feel like I'm getting there and then I, know, other things adjust. So it's a constant battle for me to have it just structured. So for me, the vacations and other things that I can put in the calendar and block and hold down is what works for me. And then the weekly is where we have to adjust and I need work.
Ryan Franklin (35:55.985)
Yeah. Well, what do you feel, you're talking a lot about family here, balancing family time and all. What do you feel is a critical piece? Like if you can get this done with your family in a week's time, that that would be a success. it intentional conversations with them? What does that look like?
Brent Coltharp (36:18.561)
Yeah. For me, it's just being with them, you know, present. and now it's not for Rachel. So Rachel, it's, more eye contact. You know, we're face to face. To me, we can be side to side. If that makes sense, just, in the same car going there. And, and Rachel is saying, no, we need to sit down, nothing going and just face to face.
And so, right. Exactly. Exactly. So like, yeah. yeah. No doubt. No doubt. And so, learning that respecting that. So a lot of times that's where our meal times is, you know, we're not going to, be driven by, by phones or technology, you know, that's off the table. We have to sit down at the table and to speak and really
Ryan Franklin (36:47.901)
quality time, not just time, quality time. Which is harder for a productivity driven man?
Brent Coltharp (37:15.261)
You know, it's embarrassing to say she really had to pound this into me, you know, because,
Ryan Franklin (37:21.853)
because it wasn't important to you. You could be filled in other ways. Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (37:24.277)
No, to me, we're in the same room. Right. To me, we're in the same room. And when we're in the same room, we can be focused on different things. And I feel close to her because we're there together, you know, and share, you know, probably some of our great conversations. Of course, our first five years we traveled evangelizing. So so much of our conversation were taking place on the road, you know, driving, you know, just talking for hours at a time. But yeah. So I, what I've tried to do is to make sure our dinner time
those nights that we're having dinner at the house, that we are at the table. We even have those conversation starter cards where we'll go around the table, high, low, talk about our high points, low points. And so we try to, again, be intentional about that using tools, in fact, just to make it fun, trivia, whatever, to engage.
Ryan Franklin (38:21.149)
That's very good. Very good. In regards to your kids, anything different there or is it kind of the same? I'm sure each one of them have different needs, relational needs, but have you, how do you key into that and how do you make sure you attune to them?
Brent Coltharp (38:29.943)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (38:39.223)
Yeah. Great question. And, and probably some of it, especially for leaders is for us to realize there are different seasons of life. And the season I'm at right now is much different than, in my thirties, when I had little kids at home. Right. I mean, when you have, you know, four or five year olds, you know, eight, nine year olds, that's a whole different season than when they're 20 five year old. And so
Ryan Franklin (38:48.135)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (39:05.991)
Right.
Brent Coltharp (39:07.787)
I think one of the aspects of leadership I had to discover too, and I hope leaders, you know, continue to understand is that you have to adjust to your season of life. And you cannot look at somebody who does not have kids at home and, and say, okay, that that's where I'm at. No, I had to understand that when I had little kids, it was a different season than what it is now. So now, my kids are pretty much all,
Ryan Franklin (39:24.668)
That's wisdom.
Brent Coltharp (39:36.351)
are grown, you know, the 16 year old at home grant and, my kids were in college and, in, at, at, at Ershen. So even over the last few years, when I was in town, I would schedule every week, a meal time for us just to get together and eat and talk. And, know, it's really easy to do that when they're in college and have no money because they always want to eat with their dad, you know, they're in college and have no money.
Ryan Franklin (40:00.893)
Yeah, of course.
Brent Coltharp (40:06.165)
So it worked out perfectly. And, no, we, some of my fondest memories over the last, you know, during those twenties would be us sitting across the table talking about where they're at, what they're learning, you know, so at that time in college life experience, during the last few years, three of my kids have got married. In fact, two of my kids have got married in the last six months. So
Ryan Franklin (40:31.549)
Goodness.
Brent Coltharp (40:32.819)
So these are life, you know, these are major life decisions that we have been talking about and seeing them develop into careers and ministry and vocation, making life decisions about who they're going to marry. So all of those things have been just a great, great part of this season of our life, much different than it was when they were, you know, 10.
Ryan Franklin (40:57.021)
Has your family interaction, your love for your family, your desire to have a healthy family, has that kind of played a role in helping to keep you grounded mentally, emotionally with productivity?
Brent Coltharp (41:13.751)
Yeah. You know, and, and, and maybe, you know, the scripture talks about dwelling according to knowledge. And one of the things I started to realize a part of my mission is to see, to see the success of my family. So I feel like part of my responsibility is equipping training, counseling, launching.
Ryan Franklin (41:22.407)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (41:31.741)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (41:42.525)
is for my family. So I feel successful when I see Rachel succeed, when I see my kids succeed and what God has called them. And so part of me as a father and a husband is trying to understand their personality, their temperament, their wiring. They're all different. And then what can I do to help facilitate what God is calling them, how God wired them, the passions they had where they can succeed. And so I try to adjust to that.
for instance, with Rachel, my wife, incredibly gifted, her, her voice in my life, I, you know, her care frontation, we, we don't use confrontation with care for tape. Her care frontation has shaped me, developed me. You know, I believe marriage is one of the, principal ways that God works sanctification in our life and, seeing art, but we're very, very different, very different. And, you know,
Ryan Franklin (42:25.922)
but
Brent Coltharp (42:40.385)
Of that's friction at the beginning of a relationship. My favorite definition of normal is the family you grew up in. And when two people with two different definitions of normal come together, there's going to be friction. In fact, my wife, we had been married 20 years and she sent out this tweet. She said, anniversary to Brent, 20 years of marriage.
the best 17 years of my life. And I started to get some texts from friends or yeah, I started to get some text messages from friends and they're like, man, your wife, she's so funny. You know, she's so witty. And I started laughing because I didn't even know, you know, she had posted anything. And of course that's how I found out. And she says, what are you laughing at? I says, they think you're joking. They think this is a joke. No, we had some friction.
Ryan Franklin (43:12.758)
That is funny.
Ryan Franklin (43:35.623)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (43:39.625)
until I learned to appreciate our differences and then to use my strengths to help see her thrive. And then that, when I had that realization, it's the same thing in leadership in a local church. The team members that I have that I serve with here or anywhere else is part of my role and responsibility is to see them thrive in their calling. It's not just about my calling, what God has for me.
Ryan Franklin (43:49.095)
Huh. Wow.
Brent Coltharp (44:06.989)
there it's an interdependent relationship. And, and so when I began to see that man, we really truly became a team then respecting each other, assisting one another. She helps me in so many ways, that she is competent at, she is good at, and then there are other areas that she moves aside and I take the lead because of my strengths and it works together. And I also feel that to my children.
Ryan Franklin (44:17.383)
That is tremendous.
Brent Coltharp (44:36.287)
is for me to understand them and how can I come alongside them and help and prepare.
Ryan Franklin (44:43.643)
Which I would imagine, and you alluded to this just a moment ago, but it translates to your teams that you lead as well, your church team, your college team, all of the various places that you lead. mean, you're leading on a high level in three different or four different major organizations. You have to leverage the strengths of those
people around you, right? You have to lean into those. You have to communicate. have to care, care for, how did you say that care, care front eight. Tell, tell me more about how you lean into the strengths of, of those around you. I hear you with your spouse and your kids, but also with your team members.
Brent Coltharp (45:20.653)
Carefrontation. Yeah. Yeah. Carefrontation.
Brent Coltharp (45:35.777)
Well, of course, you know, I'm sharing things that I've learned. I definitely don't have it all down. In fact, anybody on, on the teams, including my family would tell you I have a long way to go. but one of the things I realized with teams is sometimes we have rigid job descriptions that we're trying to fit people into that. Right. And every time we bring on new team members, one of the things we have to take time is assess who we're bringing in.
What's their gifts? What's their abilities? There might be some areas where they're better than somebody who has that responsibility on the team right now. Instead of being, you know, very hardcore on what this job title or a role is, we might need to make some adjustments. And so the
Ryan Franklin (46:10.205)
That's good.
Ryan Franklin (46:21.655)
Or I would assume even hiring just a warm body, you're not wanting to do that. You need to find somebody that even sometimes just fits the need that you have on your campus or your whatever.
Brent Coltharp (46:35.789)
The chemistry is important. If you don't enjoy who you're working with, it's going to be miserable. And if they're miserable, you're going to be miserable and the organization is going to be miserable. I would tell you, if you, if you are not content, happy, like where you're at, you need to find someplace where you're at. Life is too short for you to be miserable. but even, for instance, at, at the church, I have an executive pastor, Greg Wilhelm, an amazing, amazing guy in, a,
Ryan Franklin (46:40.221)
So true.
Ryan Franklin (46:54.781)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (47:05.717)
Also executive assistant, Jessica Graham. Well, when they come in, Greg's gifts and abilities were different than somebody who was serving before. So for me to just say, Hey, you need to do what he did. so part of it is all of us adjusting. How can we be the strongest team now with the personnel on the field? You know, it would be similar to a, a team and athletic team switching out a player.
and you take out one star and put on another star. Well, they can have different gifts. You don't just necessarily run the same place. You got to find out what's the best thing to do with this team. And so that means we're always a learning organization. You know, who needs to be having these roles and responsibilities? Now I live in Aurora, pastor in Aurora at the Erskine University and UGST.
Ryan Franklin (47:40.157)
That's great. Great point.
Brent Coltharp (48:00.393)
executive vice president there's is Jenny Russell, which she's an amazing leader. And so part of those conversations in those teams is learning one another. So she has to learn me. I have to learn her or your team members, because when we are leading and processing, we have to know how each other thinks. and so part of that is a lot of communication, not just making decisions, but processing them. This is why we're leading in this direction.
Ryan Franklin (48:09.745)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (48:24.039)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (48:29.361)
This is the steps that took us to get here. And the more we can learn about one another and understand one another, the more we can lead effectively as a team if we know where everybody's strengths are and their abilities and their passions.
Ryan Franklin (48:45.501)
Is there any particular method of finding someone's strengths that you do? Is there an actual assessment that you do? What kind of lens do you put on to be able to see people's strengths?
Brent Coltharp (49:00.429)
everything to me that this is, and maybe that's part of the clinical background is I think it's a great thing to take all kinds of assessments because obviously they don't lock us into something, but they're great conversations. if somebody's taking the disc, Meyers-Briggs, know, Enneagram, whatever, I'm open to talking about it because it's many times those become just diving boards to say, okay, this is really where it has me. This is where it doesn't have me. And,
Ryan Franklin (49:08.733)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (49:23.719)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (49:30.217)
And then to hear their feedback because as we work together, you know, you're getting a mirror put up in front of your face as well. And you're getting great feedback in the discussions. So typically, as time goes on something, you know, we'll take different assessments. We'll discuss it. We'll talk about it. And, and I find that that becomes really great conversation starters as well. Not only getting to know them, but whatever the tool is, it can help you to.
get to know somebody better.
Ryan Franklin (50:02.193)
Yeah, that's good. So with such high productivity, with so many irons in the fire, there's undoubtedly going to be some times where you cannot handle the pressures that are coming at you. What strategies have helped you overcome these challenging times? And is there even an example of a particular time that comes to mind when this has happened?
Brent Coltharp (50:18.049)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (50:29.697)
Well, you know, I have had to learn that, I'm going to disappoint people, you know, it's like, it is, it is. And, I think, I think sometimes it's harder on me than it is on them because I'm somebody who was trained, you know, you lead the way, you know, when I came back to roar, I was out mowing the grass, you know, if we're going to tear down the banquet hall, I'm going to be
Ryan Franklin (50:38.001)
That's hard though.
Ryan Franklin (50:45.297)
Yeah, no doubt.
Brent Coltharp (50:57.815)
grabbing chairs, know, lead the way, lead the way. And sometimes when, when I can't do something, that's, that's probably a painful thing for me sometimes. And so what I've had to learn is very much about priorities, you know, is, is what is, it's not, is there something to do? We all have something to do. Probably all of us have a list of things to do that's a mile long, but how am I going to determine what I have to do?
And to me, that's the challenge even when we start talking about balance. Balance is not being fair. It's not giving everything the same amount of time. It's not equal. Balance is finding what's the big rocks to use a Covey thing. What's the big rocks? What's most important? And I have to do that. And I have to be OK that I can't do everything.
Ryan Franklin (51:34.013)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (51:53.781)
And an organization has to do that the same way, you know, regardless of how big the organization is, whether it's the POA or how, whatever size is you can't do everything. You have to make decisions. These are the things not only we can do. And that's where I think vision is, is not only what we can do, what we must do, what is it I have to do. And that's what we have to work on in that practice.
Ryan Franklin (52:01.629)
Correct.
Ryan Franklin (52:19.261)
When you have to disappoint someone, is it just mind over matter? You just force yourself to be okay with that and move on? Or is there a pep talk that you got to give yourself?
Brent Coltharp (52:34.561)
Yeah, man, I don't have this down well. I have to pray about it. I grieve. Sometimes I grieve. Journaling helps me.
Ryan Franklin (52:44.733)
Is this when you feel that the most overwhelming pressure of leadership comes? That's when you're having a disappointment, especially when you're feeling disappointment from a couple of people at one time. I'd imagine that's when it's really overwhelming for you.
Brent Coltharp (52:59.265)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (53:02.753)
Yeah, that's when you, you've probably feel the weight the most, you know, because sometimes you, in leadership, you, really can't defend yourself a lot, right? probably nobody knows every, all the pieces that are on the board, everything that's going on and you can't explain everything that you do. you have to have it that people know your heart and that they trust you as a leader, you know, and, hopefully you've earned that trust,
Ryan Franklin (53:27.013)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (53:31.563)
with how you've lived up to that point. And so it's being able to, again, go back to that confidence of where we're at. I'm walking with God, I'm doing what I can, God knows. And searching in prayer, Lord, you know, am I seeing this clearly? And being open to that correction, but then being able to say,
and have confidence that when we lay our head on our pillow at night is I made the best decisions I could. I might have made a wrong decision, which I do. Sometimes I have to correct it and adjust it. You know, that's the thing with leadership. You don't just get it down and then, okay, I've got it down and never have to make adjustments. No, it's always about making adjustments based on the circumstances, the time, the seasons.
Ryan Franklin (54:23.505)
and I'm hearing in your voice repairing relationships even if that's what's necessary to make that adjustment. when you're speaking of these relationships, you can disappoint someone a whole lot easier if you have good relationship, productive relationship, a real relationship with individuals that you lead because they feel your love, they feel your acceptance.
Brent Coltharp (54:28.459)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (54:52.753)
They feel your containment at times. What do you do? How do you cultivate productive relationships within your teams with so much going on?
Brent Coltharp (55:08.173)
Well, I think that's where the weekly one-on-ones is so important is because the people that are closest to me and again, of course, like any other organization, you can't give equal time to equal people, you know? so there is an inner circle and every person has sort of their inner circle and that one-on-one time they know that they're, we're going to have that one-on-one time. And it's not just about, you know,
That's a time, cause I care about the people that I serve with. In fact, that's the joy, right? Is to have teams of people you like and you work together and you work hard together and you celebrate together and you rejoice together. And so part of, of our one-on-ones too, is I want to check in, you know, in the template that we have that we use, we're checking in first and foremost, how are you doing? You know, what's going on? Sometimes you have staff members who have, they're going through medical issues.
Ryan Franklin (55:57.863)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (56:03.379)
or family issues. And really that's more important than anything else that you're going to talk about that day. And that builds relationship and trust. I want to make sure as a leader that their life balance is good. I don't want to just dump too much on a leader that they're overwhelmed and their marriage is suffering. And so I want to be checking in on that as well for them.
Ryan Franklin (56:27.985)
How do you recognize when one of your team members, they're just not coming out and saying, you know, this has been a terrible day because of this. How do you recognize? you, are you, are you looking for emotion within them first before you get into content? What's your secret on that?
Brent Coltharp (56:43.617)
Yeah. Well, I think if you build relationships, with people and you get an intimate relationship with someone, you're going to pick up on cues, but also if there's trust there, they are going to be more open to sharing. And so I tried to do both. tried to, if somebody, I'm very much believe in loyalty to the team. And again, this is not saying everybody.
Ryan Franklin (56:54.845)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (57:01.181)
That's good.
Brent Coltharp (57:11.937)
but these are people that are close. They have a priority. They just really do. They have a priority. They're in that circle. We are dependent upon one another. And so I want them to know that they can come to me at any time and their family per se to maybe use that. And I'm going to be there. I want to hear. I am interested. And that's probably one of the challenges even downline or even in a church is
For those who are task-oriented or productive, people think, well, I don't want to bother or too busy, but those are the things that we take the time for. That's why we're here. That's why we're here. So our projects, our initiatives, you know, whatever we're working on, that can be delayed. And, you know, we have to learn that that, that can be delayed. We can, I know we don't like to do it, but we can push a deadline back. But sometimes what people are going through at that moment, if it's a
Ryan Franklin (57:48.336)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (58:11.061)
crisis and emergency, that can't be delayed. And so to be okay with that, and I think probably too many of our organizations or leaderships, we try to do too much anyway. And so even toning down, you know, because we have our business as usual, the things that we have to do every week. And sometimes those new initiatives we're trying to do too much new, we have to sort of set ourselves up to, say, hey, a bit at a time, and we'll get the job done and confidence in that.
But yeah, when it comes to the team, what's going on, that's the most important thing, because if they're not healthy, then we're all, everything's going to suffer. Just like I believe it with my personal health, it can't be just about me and my personal health. has to be about the team and theirs as well. They have to put their health first for to work together.
Ryan Franklin (59:00.859)
I love that. And, and what happens is when you put their health first, your health first, then the health of your organization just skyrockets.
Brent Coltharp (59:10.465)
Yeah. Yeah. You have to model the way to use a CUSAs imposter thing. If you're not modeling the way, you know, again, some things are taught, but a lot's going to be caught.
Ryan Franklin (59:22.065)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're going to kind of move to a close here, but I've got one more question that I want to ask you that may even be an extended answer. don't know. And we've also already touched on a little bit of this, I think. But I just want to end with, from afar, you have, it appears, tremendous excellence in your leadership and the way that you're continually improving.
continuous improvements in the ministries and the organizations that you lead. What are the key habits that have helped you cultivate that over the years?
Brent Coltharp (01:00:02.615)
Yeah. Well, I appreciate those kind words. When I, when I see it, I see so many times the improvements we need to make. And, and I, course that, that gives me job security. There's, there's always room for improvement to growth challenge in the seasons of ministry and seasons of organizations, life cycle organizations. There's always going to be work to do.
Ryan Franklin (01:00:13.308)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (01:00:31.603)
So I appreciate the kind words. Part of it is yes, is continuing to grow personally. If I'm not growing, if I'm not developing, then the organization, the team, you know, you have to set that pattern first. And that's most important. You can't, I think this might go back to John Maxwell years ago when I talked about first being exposed to him back when my dad took me to that conference.
But I believe it was him. said, you can either have one year, you could even have 30 years of experience or one year of experience repeated 30 times. And what he was saying is that, you know, you're not growing, you know, maybe if you're on a factory operating a machine for 30 years, you just operate that machine. But typically in leadership, we want to grow. And part of the growing is through our experiences. We develop every year. We should be a little bit better.
because of the experiences we've had, if we take time to reflect upon them and put lessons learned into practice. And so as, as I continue, I want to continue to grow. want our team to, I want our organization to do so. And so, it has to be an intentional desire to see that. And I think that really comes down to humility in a sense that we want to have humility. We don't want to think that we know it all. We believe that there are great things ahead.
Ryan Franklin (01:01:52.711)
Mm-hmm.
Brent Coltharp (01:01:58.329)
I look at young people that are coming up and I see the talents and the gifts and the abilities and the passions. And, you know, I'm just amazed at the potential that there is for the future, but that only happens if we continue to develop, you know, we don't, we don't plateau somewhere and become stagnant, growing. so for, for, for me, that's, that's just who I am. I'm not going to be happy if I'm in, not in that kind of an environment that
doesn't see, Hey, we still have room to grow. There's still a lot to do. And to me, the kingdom of God, when you start talking about the kingdom, it deserves our best. You know, one of our mottos here at the church is to honor God and impact people. want to honor him in what we do and how we do it. And we want to make a difference with people. And so that requires us to continually be leading and growing and developing.
Ryan Franklin (01:02:53.927)
Tremendous, tremendous. Well, anything else before we wrap up here?
Brent Coltharp (01:03:00.801)
Well, I just, you know, I appreciate, I appreciate your podcast and, and the program and all that you're doing. I wish that had been there 30 years ago. so I'm excited to see resources and, the impact that you're making and even, to see, see these discussions, you know, we're, part of an amazing, amazing thing is in the kingdom of God.
and to be able to give our lives to making an eternal difference. And my hats off, you know, as, a superintendent, as with Urshin in different contexts, I see all across this country, good men and good women who are in the trenches or working hard. And I just, that, that to me is just such an inspiration. The body of Christ is an amazing thing. And I just hope that
Ryan Franklin (01:03:54.758)
It really is.
Brent Coltharp (01:03:56.629)
that the people that hear this are encouraged like I have been in some of these sessions is to realize that they're doing a good work. And, you know, when, it comes to rebuilding the walls, it didn't become a good work when the walls were done. It became a good work when they started. And even when it was halfway, it was still a great work, a good work. And, and when it was done,
Ryan Franklin (01:04:08.541)
Good work.
Brent Coltharp (01:04:24.109)
And so many times we can get discouraged if we haven't seen all the results and all the fulfillment that we have been working toward and desire. And I'm there, you know, I see dreams that are not fulfilled, visions that have not been accomplished. But one of the things we need to realize is that when we are in the trenches on our day-to-day basis, when we're faithful to what God has called us to do and to the work he has for us, we're doing a good work and it's going to be good every day. And when it's done, it'll be good.
But it doesn't get good when it's done. It gets good every day when we are working.
Ryan Franklin (01:04:54.567)
That's good.
Ryan Franklin (01:04:59.825)
That is so good and such wisdom for productivity-minded people. I struggle to enjoy the present. so that's something that I need to be reminded of often, is to slow down and enjoy the day-to-day work, not just the finished work, but the day-to-day work that is moving towards that. And so thank you for those wise words.
Brent Coltharp (01:05:09.408)
No,
Brent Coltharp (01:05:20.716)
Yeah.
Brent Coltharp (01:05:25.503)
a whole lot easier to say than to live out. I constantly have to tell myself to enjoy the journey. Enjoy the journey.
Ryan Franklin (01:05:32.317)
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much again for joining us and giving us your time today. It's so valuable and I know that it's a commodity that is quite full in your schedule with all of the hats that you wear, but I just want you to know how much we greatly appreciate your time today and your wisdom.
Brent Coltharp (01:05:59.191)
Thank you, I'm honored.
Ryan Franklin (01:06:01.595)
And so this concludes our show today. My name is Ryan Franklin. Thank you so much for joining us on the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast.
Copyright © 2025 Ryan Franklin. All rights reserved.
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