In this episode, Ryan sits down with Pastor Jerron Carney for a powerful conversation on the importance of strong male leadership in the church and community. Jerron shares his personal journey, the influence of strong mentors, and the challenges men face—including absent fathers, shame, and guilt. They discuss the necessity of radical accountability, particularly in overcoming struggles like pornography, and the role of community support in fostering true biblical manhood. Jerron also unpacks the significance of strong marriages, integrity, and redefining success in men’s ministry. If you’re looking for practical strategies to strengthen leadership, build mentorship, and cultivate faith-driven and resilience men, this episode is a must-listen!
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Transcript
Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast. On the show today, we have a tremendous guest, Pastor Jaren Carney. Jaren has been the lead pastor of Woodlawn Church in Columbia, Mississippi since 2013. And in addition to pastoring, Jaren has founded two nonprofit organizations, Impact Community, which supports church planners and Hope Community Collective, which works to add value to families.
and communities in South Mississippi. And through these roles and organizations, Jaren has repeatedly proven to be a tremendous leader. But one of Jaren's special focuses for many years has been his desire to make a lasting impact among men, to build men who are full of faith and character, that serve others, serve the kingdom of God.
And that's going to be our primary focus of today's conversation. We're going to focus on men today. So Jaren, welcome to the show.
Jerron Carney (01:36.657)
Hey Ron, it's good to be here. I'm honored to share this time with you today.
Ryan Franklin (01:43.214)
Yeah, I know you have a ton going on. You're a busy pastor and you have your hands in a lot of things. So I greatly appreciate you taking your time. But I do greatly appreciate you doing it.
Jerron Carney (01:51.379)
You're one to be talking in that area.
Jerron Carney (01:56.913)
No, I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, well, thank you. I'm talking about something today that I'm passionate about. that's an easy task and something that I'm honored to do.
Ryan Franklin (02:05.08)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (02:11.732)
Absolutely. Well, I highly honor and love your desire to want to put a lot of focus in this area to impact men because it's such a needed thing. And I'd love for us to just start off today with you sharing some moments of your journey in your life that kind of helped you become the pastor, the husband, the dad, but especially the man that you are today.
Jerron Carney (02:40.913)
Well, I haven't arrived like any of us. I feel like the moment we feel like we arrived, that's when we're in trouble. So I am constantly trying to be a better husband and father and Christian and pastor. But Ryan, I've had strong men in my life, like all of my life. And what they say, we...
Ryan Franklin (02:51.736)
Correct.
Jerron Carney (03:10.513)
we stand on the shoulders of the men who went before us. And I'm definitely that guy. You know, my dad, such a strong man, a strong leader, paved the way for what we're doing here now at Woodlawn. I just got to see manhood, example in a way that, you know,
Ryan Franklin (03:24.514)
Mend this man.
Jerron Carney (03:40.603)
not only was just the epitome of what a man should be, but also just that example of what I wanted to follow. And I told people often, my dad was my pastor. Well, first of all, he was my dad. And he made that very, very evident. He was my dad, he was my pastor, and he was my best friend.
Ryan Franklin (04:08.398)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (04:09.447)
Four years ago, he went to his reward. But what he put in me has marked me forever. And I got to see him build men. hopefully I'm just a little chip off of that block, a little chip. I got a long way to go. But.
Ryan Franklin (04:30.83)
I would say you're more than a chip with my experience with you, Jared.
Jerron Carney (04:33.861)
Well, and then, you know, my brother who's eight and a half years older than me, Ryan.
Ryan Franklin (04:42.604)
I didn't realize he was that much older.
Jerron Carney (04:44.689)
Yeah, I know he looks a lot older than that, he hope he's listening today. But you know, he's been like a father figure in my life as well. And yeah, so cool to see him, you know, nail in a position, you know, with our organization, Secretary of Men's Ministry and working with with PJ Paymer and, know, Jay has been an
Ryan Franklin (04:47.822)
We won't tell him that.
Jerron Carney (05:14.547)
incredible, you know, leader in our movement, but also, you know, just a He was a father figure to me and then in the absence of my father he became more of that these last few years and so I've just been blessed and privileged, you know to have strong men in my life to to watch them, you know example exactly You know what we're talking about today, you know, what what does manhood look like?
in the church? What does manhood look like leading your family? And so I feel extremely blessed today. And I think that's why I'm so passionate about this topic. I, Ryan, I was just thinking about it earlier before we started this podcast, like, we have to get this right. Like, I genuinely believe it is, we know that's what's wrong with America.
But if we struggle in any area of the church, this is it. And if we get this right, it's going to be a good day for the church. And so I think that's why I'm just so passionately pursuing this topic. And I know we'll dive into it. But I just want to say from the outset, this will change everything in the apostolic church. This will change everything.
you know, whatever organization, whatever movement you're leading.
Ryan Franklin (06:47.736)
Yeah. And I hear in your voice the gratefulness of the support and the mentoring and the example and all that your dad and even your brother has given you in your life. And your dad was a tremendous man. I didn't know. I interacted with him a little bit personally, but not a ton. But just from a distance, I could just
see the character, the deep capacity and character that he had in his life. And that was no doubt very life-shaping for you as a man. And unfortunately, there's a ton of people in this that maybe listen to this that include myself that didn't have that type of godly example in their life and maybe even not as high of a capacity.
you know, to handle the ebbs and flows of life. And that makes it quite challenging. And, and, you know, lot of people are broken because of that. And, but I think because of your example, because of the things that you have grown in, your life, feels like to me that has positioned you to be able to speak into men that are broken there into their lives and really lead them from a, from a pure and a.
Jerron Carney (07:57.031)
Yes.
Ryan Franklin (08:16.512)
in a healthy place in ministry. Would you agree?
Jerron Carney (08:21.171)
I think so. It's something that I talk about often here locally at Woodline. Yes, we live in a broken world.
Jerron Carney (08:37.533)
some of our biggest problems, especially in our nation and our world, is absent fathers. We know that. But I think that has crept into the church shrine. you deal with it as much as I do, broken homes and broken relationships. there's that absent father factor in the church as well. But what I see that is more, I guess,
alarming is we have absent spiritual fathers and men that aren't leading at a capacity that their family needs them to lead and we can go into that. I have a whole thing on why I feel like that they've lost their voice.
Ryan Franklin (09:18.477)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (09:28.738)
Let's go there. Why do you feel like that? Let's jump into that if you don't mind.
Jerron Carney (09:36.913)
Yeah, well, you know, think, you know, men have made mistakes. This is what I see more than anything, you know. They have not always lived up to, you know, the calling in which, you know, they have felt upon their life or they feel prey to sin and
you know, one thing led to another, but when they make that mistake, there is a condemnation that is placed upon them as the spiritual leader, as the priest of their home. And for whatever reason, they cannot get past that mistake. And it has silenced the voice.
of good men in our churches and they don't feel worthy to many times.
Ryan Franklin (10:43.886)
It's that shame, that guilt.
Jerron Carney (10:47.759)
Yes, and I very rarely do I see a man that has made a mistake that is able to in their in their future put that mistake behind them and lead in a way that honors their calling and
Ryan Franklin (11:08.386)
What, that you're so right in that, that's a very common thing that I see even in pastoral counseling at POA, you know, very frequently. And what do you think is the solution to that?
Jerron Carney (11:10.856)
Go ahead.
Jerron Carney (11:28.369)
You know, obviously, you we gotta keep teaching it, preaching it. We have to keep, you know, just instilling into men that you are not your mistake. You know, you can step back in. Yes, you can step back into what God has called you.
Ryan Franklin (11:40.888)
Yeah.
Exactly.
You don't have to be defined by that.
Ryan Franklin (11:53.314)
Would you say that
Ryan Franklin (12:02.05)
I just know how powerful the presence of love and relationship is. would you say that remaining with someone, like if I'm going through a dark time and maybe I've made a mistake and Jaron Carney comes and like loves me anyway, is there present with me? Doesn't shun me?
you know, like maybe somebody in my past would have done that triggers that shame and all in me today. But to me, and that relational impact of I'm going to love you anyway is a huge factor.
Jerron Carney (12:54.513)
Yes, you know, I love the passage, you know, that we have to, you know...
Jerron Carney (13:09.539)
love our, we have to love ourselves and you know there is, there's too many men that have fallen out of love with themselves.
Ryan Franklin (13:12.43)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (13:20.086)
Yeah, that's so true. You got to love yourself first if you're going to adequately love somebody around you.
Jerron Carney (13:21.651)
and until we... yes.
I believe, you you're talking about being present, you know, it's just like with leadership, more of this is is called than taught. And we've got to, we got to create a culture in our churches. That is that is true mentorship that is true one on one discipleship that is that's not just saying, hey, we're there for you. But
Ryan Franklin (13:55.97)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (14:03.335)
but be there for them.
Ryan Franklin (14:04.898)
Well, exactly. I think our seven ministry at POA, addiction ministry and all, they've grabbed hold of this and it's working. But why can't we do that in the general church as well, creating an environment of grace where we love, care, and truth?
where we teach people, where we help them grow their capacity, where we help them grow out of those wounds and that sort of thing. But there's no reason why that we can't incorporate even some of the same things that are working in addiction ministry right in the church.
Jerron Carney (14:48.125)
Yeah. What are you seeing in that addiction ministry that is working that you feel like we can emulate to?
Ryan Franklin (14:54.606)
And invite, now wait a minute, I thought I was the host here.
Jerron Carney (14:58.643)
Yeah, I know, but I just... You've intrigued me there.
Ryan Franklin (15:02.734)
I would say it's the environment of grace and truth. It's the environment of unconditional love, not just rose petals, and it's not just a hammer. If you only have a hammer, it's going to create shame. It's going to people hiding from not wanting to show their...
their vulnerable parts of their life. If you do rose petals only, love, care only, you don't have change. And I think the Lord calls us on several occasions, John 1, 14, I believe it is, to grace and truth. And we've got to lead with grace. We've got to lead with love, care. That's what brings people's guards down, the vulnerability of people.
so that we can give them truth as well in a loving, caring way, not with a hammer. And I think so many people have been raised where it's either a hammer or it's love. And so the love only is going to leave a person immature. The hammer only is going to lead someone to rebel. But a combination of it.
in the midst together, like an integration of the two, is what is going to create that environment. And I think the addiction ministries typically have that right. That's why you see people being able to get their five-year chip, ten-year chip, because they have that grace and truth environment that they've created.
Jerron Carney (16:55.429)
So good run. I kind of like this. I'm just gonna start asking you these questions. This is that's
Ryan Franklin (16:58.99)
Let's shift this back to you, Jared.
Jerron Carney (17:03.571)
Hey, but honestly in this topic that we're talking about, it's more difficult with men.
Ryan Franklin (17:13.128)
it is.
Jerron Carney (17:13.265)
because men don't want to let their guard down.
Ryan Franklin (17:17.866)
Exactly. And think about it. Why? Because they got hammered by a dad, by a mentor, a pastor, an uncle. If they show their vulnerable parts, they get hammered. And that's created a tough side. So let me ask you this in regards to men.
How is that going today? Are men too soft? Are they not too soft? Not soft enough? You know, what's...
Jerron Carney (17:57.565)
think it's a double-edged sword.
Ryan Franklin (17:59.544)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (18:00.936)
I think the general answer is yes, they are too soft. think, you know, our world has over-corrected.
And so, yes, yes, it's more of, know, just, I mean, it's a tough subject, you know, because yes, the church is called to love, but when it comes to me and, you know, being soft or not, you know, we are,
Ryan Franklin (18:15.629)
To love only.
Ryan Franklin (18:33.486)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (18:43.143)
We're creating a culture that, in my opinion, is passive, is, you know, again, because they've lost their voice. They don't feel like they can step up to the plate. You know, they don't feel like they can lead their homes, lead their wives, lead their children. And then, you know, at the same time, like, I do think, you know, that what you're talking about, grace and truth has got to be a part. I'm just thinking about my own life.
Like some of the strongest men that I know?
would get down on the floor and week with you. Like that's not a sign of being soft or being weak. know, true men understand, know, their, you know, their role in calling as a man. My dad, you know, he was a nurturer. Like that's what made him a great pastor. You know, he, you know, he could walk in the room. He was six, two.
Ryan Franklin (19:21.763)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (19:28.93)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (19:40.438)
Yeah, he was.
Jerron Carney (19:47.367)
He could walk in the room, just his presence. He was a bigger man. It commanded. Yeah, he was a manly man. But he commanded attention when he walked in the room. so obviously that's there. But at the same time, he had the ability to make everybody in the room feel like they were the most important person in the room. I have heard so many people make that statement.
Ryan Franklin (19:51.67)
Manly man.
Jerron Carney (20:15.323)
My dad was a nurturer to my kids. He was more of a nurturer than my mom is. Are we creating a generation that is too soft? I think the general answer is yes, but at the same time, when someone understands their role as a man in the kingdom, that love, that nurturing spirit, that forgiving spirit, that comes along with it. That's who we are as men of God.
Ryan Franklin (20:18.243)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (20:35.395)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (20:43.266)
Yeah. Right. And what I see, what I hear you saying is like with your dad, he was a manly man. his stature demanded attention from people, yet he displayed the fruit of the spirit in a tremendous way, which softened that manly man approach. He, people still thought of him as a manly man. However,
They also loved him because of the fruit of the spirit that he displayed.
Jerron Carney (21:16.657)
It'd be amazing if we got back to portraying the fruit. That might answer all of our issues.
Ryan Franklin (21:21.358)
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.
Jerron Carney (21:29.139)
That's awesome.
Ryan Franklin (21:30.902)
So just kind of shifting here a little bit to temptations. Men have a ton of temptations from sexual things to power to the list can go on and on. What do you see out there? What's some of the solutions to?
avoid some of these temptations and we can even talk about some specific temptations.
Jerron Carney (22:05.969)
Yeah, know, Ryan, we hear the word accountability, accountability, accountability, and I'm for accountability, obviously. You know, my brother makes the statement famous that everyone needs someone in their life that knows them. And he says, I'm not talking about K-N-O-W. I'm talking about N-O. Everybody.
Ryan Franklin (22:23.971)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (22:34.833)
need someone in their life that can know them. No, Ryan, you don't need to go there. No, Ryan, that's not a good direction. And I'm for accountability. In fact, I've put many men in our church on what I call a radical accountability plan, which is, you know, that's basically when they fall or...
Ryan Franklin (22:41.037)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (22:59.63)
Tell me more about that. Radical accountability plan. I love it.
Jerron Carney (23:02.419)
Well, obviously we deal with men that fall to sin, they come needing help, needing someone to be with them, to guide them, and I wish I could be that to everyone. I'm sorry, I just lost one of my AirPods.
Ryan Franklin (23:12.866)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (23:31.185)
I've placed them on this radical accountability plan. I've got several men in my church that stepped up to the plate to be accountability partners. And so, you know, the approach there, Ryan, is that for 90 days, they would talk to their accountability partner every single day for 90 days. I prefer that to be done on the phone.
Like in a in-person phone call, but some of that is done through text just the you know, the way we we live now, but Every day for 90 days they have to answer You know questions such as hey, I prayed today I Read my Bible today. I did not have any Connection with a person of the opposite sex outside of my wife, you know just
And basically the accountability plan is built around the struggles in which they have. I didn't look at pornography today. And so it's that 90 days, they have to meet in person once a month. And obviously they pretty much see one another at church. They have to memorize Psalms 91 and the entire chapter. It's radical.
I know and men aren't used to it. But in every situation that I place on this radical accountability plan, there's been growth, there's been a thankful spirit that they did it. They saw progress in the midst of this.
Ryan Franklin (24:58.284)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (25:14.85)
What do you think that does to the man that's struggling and going through this? What does that do to, I would say not have to, but get to go through this 90 day accountability program?
Jerron Carney (25:29.831)
You know, the first thing, it tears down the walls of, I've got to be honest with this guy. Like every day I'm having to tell him whether or not I looked at pornography today.
Ryan Franklin (25:40.696)
So it's sort of removing the mask, the hiding. Yeah.
Jerron Carney (25:43.303)
Yes.
Jerron Carney (25:47.091)
And if you do something for 90 days, chances are you've went a long way in conquering that stumbling block or that sin. I know what they say, if you do something for 30 days, it becomes a habit. What if we take that to 90 days? What does that look like?
Ryan Franklin (25:59.573)
Absolutely.
Ryan Franklin (26:07.491)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (26:14.69)
How important is that relationship that is being built over those 90 days, do you feel?
Jerron Carney (26:23.453)
You know, to me, Ryan, that's more important than the questions that they're answering. It builds a bond there.
Ryan Franklin (26:28.056)
Yeah. Or even them, even that it's more important than them even lining up, you know, even if they're still struggling to some degree, you're establishing a relational connection that, you know, can help them move towards healing in that area. also, you're given that accountability partner, that accountability partner.
the opportunity to show grace and love. Would you agree?
Jerron Carney (27:00.231)
Yeah, absolutely. And you want to make sure that your accountability partners are men who will show grace and love. You know, it cannot just be, hey, I'm here to catch you again. You know, it's because typically in that 90 days, there is, you know, there's gonna be another struggle that comes up. You know, it's not 90 days of just smooth sailing and, you know,
Ryan Franklin (27:12.48)
Yes. Yes.
Ryan Franklin (27:22.722)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (27:28.578)
Well, mean, likely that pornography or whatever is a medication or a cover up to something that's deeper. And so something's going to come up.
Jerron Carney (27:38.375)
Yeah, and I'll say this, you know, as of now, I have yet to see, you know, that partnership happen, that radical accountability partnership happen, that in that 90 days, there is not a spiritual moment in a service at the altar where those two men aren't weeping on one another's shoulders.
You know, because when you tear down that wall and you get rid of the mask, you know, with someone, you know, of another man, like that's easier said than done. You know, there is a bond that's formed, a relationship that started and...
Ryan Franklin (28:25.774)
Does it stop at 90 days? No. Yeah.
Jerron Carney (28:27.705)
No, that relationship, you know, it's for a lifetime. You know, and so it's been, it's been fun. I wish I could tell you that it was a, it was a fix all. If it was, I'd have everybody in my church on a 90 day accountability plan. You know, it's, it's not a fix all, but it, does go a long way in ensuring that that man conquers that, particular stomach block.
Ryan Franklin (28:56.61)
Yeah. You know, we mentioned pornography. That's a biggie. There's a lot of other things, anger and different things that men struggle with. it's not just pornography. But in today's world, pornography has become so accessible because of the internet. And it's a routine problem, even among pastors even that may be listening to this or leaders of churches to...
That's a tough thing for them to overcome and grapple with. Do you have any advice or anything that you could think of that would be helpful to somebody that may be listening to this and they're struggling?
Jerron Carney (29:43.217)
I think too long, Ryan, it's been a taboo subject in the church. And we're dealing with it every single day. I heard a stat this week.
Ryan Franklin (29:51.81)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (29:58.611)
you know, over 50 % of the men, that number may be 60 % of the men in Christian organizations and churches are dealing with pornography. And, you know, if that stat was somewhere else that was not a taboo subject like pornography, what would we be doing? We'd be declaring it from the rooftop. You know, we'd be...
Ryan Franklin (30:26.414)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (30:28.359)
you know, with a megaphone out in the lobby, you know, we have to talk about it. We have to address it. We have to create dialogue, you know, and give people an opportunity to come forward and say, need help.
Ryan Franklin (30:40.238)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (30:49.391)
If we don't talk about it, Ryan as pastors, when we do hear about it, it's going to be more than likely with a spouse that is upset or called them or the marriage is on the rocks or in shambles, you know, and I think exposure.
Ryan Franklin (31:07.65)
Which sometimes is not a bad thing to be honest with you because it gives you an excuse to bring it to light. We don't want it to get to there, but...
Jerron Carney (31:17.797)
I agree with that. Yeah, I just, I don't want it to wreck a marriage. You know, first of all, it's sin. But then it leads to, you know, marriage problems, divorce. And but we have to talk about it. Like the church. Yeah, I mean, we're in family month right now at Woodline.
Ryan Franklin (31:24.116)
Exactly. Yes. Right.
Ryan Franklin (31:38.456)
We have to talk about it.
Jerron Carney (31:45.071)
We're just spending an entire month just trying to strengthen the home, strengthen the family. Because strong families make strong churches, and we've got that backwards for so long. But we have to give people the tools to build a strong family.
Ryan Franklin (31:49.848)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (31:54.126)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (32:02.54)
Yeah. And if somebody is struggling with this, know, especially a pastor, there's a lot of ramifications that could happen if their church or their spouse or whatever found out about this, which that's why it makes it so difficult for people to come forward and say, hey, I'm struggling with this issue of pornography. it's almost...
our culture of kind of works against actually helping somebody get healing from that. And I would say, if you don't mind me just maybe making a statement here on if somebody is struggling with this.
and you don't feel like that you don't really know what to do. You don't feel like you can go to your pastor. Maybe this is a pastor that doesn't feel like they can go to anybody. At least, at the very least, find a counselor who is bound by state laws to hold your confidence and begin the steps of working through this. And it may be that you need to
step down from your church or for a season while you get healed. I don't know. But at least find someone that is confidential and begin to process this stuff with somebody. It's amazing what Satan can do with a lonely person who is dealing with all of this shame and guilt and...
and things of that nature. So get somebody in your world somehow, some way to begin to process what healing looks like for your future.
Jerron Carney (33:59.079)
so good and so true, right?
it seems as if this is only growing.
Ryan Franklin (34:10.136)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (34:11.283)
You know, I wish I could tell you it's getting better. But we are dealing with this on the daily. we gotta help solve it. It's a huge problem in the life of men in the church.
Ryan Franklin (34:15.075)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (34:25.88)
we do.
Mm-hmm.
It is. It is.
So shifting again a little bit here, every man obviously doesn't have to get married. But how important do you feel a spouse is to sort of maintaining a manhood in your world or in another man's world?
Jerron Carney (35:02.289)
Ryan, don't think we can stress this enough. it's, you know, I'm married up, you married up, you know.
Ryan Franklin (35:12.522)
Absolutely.
Jerron Carney (35:15.251)
our spouses are...
Ryan Franklin (35:17.806)
Our spouses actually came from the same neck of the woods in Louisiana. Or close to it, anyway.
Jerron Carney (35:23.837)
By the tin he told me I went to the land of milk and honey and found a wife. And I'm so thankful the promised land was good to me.
Ryan, you know, because I have a strong marriage, because my wife is, you know, so, you know, so sold out to, you know, the church, the kingdom of God, her walk with God.
It just makes life easier for me as a man, as a husband, father and pastor. I told our church this past weekend, I spoke to the young people and young adults in the middle of my message and I just said, outside of serving God, who you choose to spend the rest of your life with is the single greatest decision.
you will ever make. They will make you or break you. just walking together, just that relationship. We don't have secrets. She has my passwords, I have hers. We are one flesh. It just makes everything better.
Ryan Franklin (36:34.862)
So true.
Jerron Carney (36:56.465)
Ryan, you know, and I've heard it. I'm just gonna go ahead and just lay it down here, you know. We're just, we're talking today. This is adult stuff, you know. Like I've heard, you know, the sexual relationship of my marriage is weak, is poor, and you know, that led me to what I did. That has been a struggle in our marriage, and we don't have time to just dive.
you know, so deep into that subject today, Ryan. But, you know, no doubt for a man it does, you know, it plays a role. Like, I'm thankful that I have a strong marriage. And if there is a struggle there, we can talk about it. You know, we can, we just put it on the table and just, you know, talk about, you know.
Ryan Franklin (37:48.662)
And if you can't talk about it, you need to get somebody else involved that can help you and your spouse talk about it. Right?
Jerron Carney (37:57.713)
Yes, 100%. You just mentioned counseling for those dealing with pornography.
Jerron Carney (38:07.613)
get help. There's too much at stake for you not to get help.
There is, you know, first of all, your family, your salvation, your children, your grandchildren, know, whoever is listening today, your church, if you're a pastor, like it's just not, nothing is worth you losing your marriage and your family, your soul over. And so reach out for help. Like you said, counselors are bound by law.
Ryan Franklin (38:34.936)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jerron Carney (38:44.913)
I'm sure you could recommend several, I could recommend several that I have full confidence, trust in.
Jerron Carney (38:55.827)
You just cannot delay that.
I am a proponent of Christian counseling.
Ryan Franklin (39:06.051)
Yeah.
A shift again. I'm hitting you with some rapid-fire questions here. What does the Bible say about becoming a man? In your study, I'm sure that you have... this is a subject you love, so you've poured your time and energy into studying about this. What does the Bible say?
Jerron Carney (39:33.597)
You know, Ryan, there's just so, the Bible is just full of, you know, scriptures obviously about becoming a man and, you know, how we are to, you know, love our wife, you know, and our wife is to love us as we love the church and, you know, all of that. But I just, I love the characters of the Bible, of people that I feel like, you know, exemplify.
you know what biblical manhood looks like you know you know the apostle Paul is my favorite biblical character I'm right now I'm I'm diving into all of his all of his writings you know you don't have to wonder where Paul stands yes you know it not without heartache you know not without struggle and temptation and you know thorns in his flesh and you know but
Ryan Franklin (40:19.982)
Much of a man there.
Jerron Carney (40:33.051)
I just picture Paul as just a man's man. But one thing I want to tell you that I just, it's kind of, it's created the framework in which I am building the men's ministry at Woodlawn. I was reading in Genesis, Joseph is in Egypt and
His brothers come to Egypt because there's a famine. And when they get there, he knows who they are, but they don't know who he is. And so they're trying to convince him they are who they say they are, and their story is correct. And they say something to him. it just, when I read it, I'm like, that's what we're trying to accomplish.
They looked at Joseph and they said, we are true men. That's what the KJV says. We are true men, the sons of one man.
And you know, it just just spoke to me that that's what we're trying to build, Ron. We're trying to build true men. Sons of one man, like we're we're trying to to model ourselves after the greatest example servant that ever walked. And so our our men's ministry at Woodline is true men. And that's
That's what we're trying to accomplish. And we're building that on four pillars, and that is integrity. We feel like if you're going to be a true man, you've got to be a man of integrity. The second pillar is courage. The third pillar is a man of faith. And the last one is a man of servanthood. And I really feel like that if we can
Ryan Franklin (42:25.901)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (42:39.539)
if we can instill those four characteristics in every man at Woodlawn. And the Bible's just full of great men who accomplished, or maybe not accomplished, but they exemplified those four character traits. so.
Ryan Franklin (42:44.995)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (43:01.686)
I'm, Jaren, I'm curious about the courage part. Can you, tell me more about that? What your thought process is on that?
Jerron Carney (43:14.151)
Yeah,
Jerron Carney (43:18.97)
stepping into the unknown.
Ryan Franklin (43:21.1)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (43:22.287)
It's, you know, men, yes. And, you know, we talk about great men in history, you know, they had to have courage to discover new land or to take a, you know, a group into battle. Like that's, yeah.
Ryan Franklin (43:24.256)
life is full of that right?
Ryan Franklin (43:37.955)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (43:42.062)
to move into the promised land, to, I mean, go on and on and on and on. It was, I find, and I'm curious about this because I find so often that pastors and church leaders deep within, they have a fear of failure. And somehow it takes, and that's,
Jerron Carney (43:49.094)
And so...
Ryan Franklin (44:11.302)
so common. would say probably 90 % of the people that I do the CDR assessment on will show up as having a fear of failure. That's their hard wire, that's their core. Doesn't mean that they don't do tremendous things in life, but they're having to figure out how to generate that courage in their life to be able to move into those hard things. So that's why I asked that question.
Jerron Carney (44:39.751)
think every man comes to a point to run where you're like, know, if I don't do it now, it's not gonna get done. And I think we have to stir that up, you know, in men to step out, you know, to lead.
Ryan Franklin (44:48.056)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (44:55.756)
Yeah. It's interesting you say that because a fear failure will naturally create worry in a person. The worry stalls their decision making and their action. So it's interesting that you say sometimes you just have to do it.
Jerron Carney (45:15.187)
Well, I think that's what courage is. Like, you're doing something nobody else is doing. You're leading what
Ryan Franklin (45:22.68)
What's it take to cultivate that, though?
What would you say it takes to cultivate that?
Jerron Carney (45:31.059)
Wow, that's a great question.
Ryan Franklin (45:34.414)
I got one thing coming to my mind right now. I'm just jumping in my mind that, uh, if you don't mind me jumping in here, um, well, relationships, like, you know, if, if you and I, Jaren were to, we're struggling or one of us were struggling with something and we jumped on a call together, we're going to encourage and help the other to build courage and
Jerron Carney (45:41.649)
No, I'll be the host.
Ryan Franklin (46:04.726)
If I don't have that relationship that is capable of helping me move through that fear of failure, I'm a lot more likely to kind of wallow in that, you know, and stall my decision making. Would you agree?
Jerron Carney (46:21.657)
but you know.
Again, I think, you know, back to more caught than taught. I think courage is caught. You know, we thrive off, yeah, we thrive off of one another. know, let me share this with you real quick. I brought, yes, no, that's.
Ryan Franklin (46:29.504)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We need each other for that.
Ryan Franklin (46:38.264)
Yeah. That competitive drive that, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I interrupted you. Go ahead.
Jerron Carney (46:46.803)
So last year I brought 12 men close to me as I am starting to, yes, form this new, you know, true men ministry. And so they didn't even know what they were coming for. I just said, hey, I want you to come to my house. I want to share with you. So I bring 12 men to my house who I feel like are true men.
Ryan Franklin (46:52.878)
In your church? Okay.
Jerron Carney (47:14.835)
I wanted to start with those that I felt like, we can build something off of these men. so we're in my living room. I'm just sharing my heart, telling them the issues that I see inside the church, inside our local church. I made it very, very personable. But I just started asking them a question. And I just said, what is one thing?
that you feel like you bring to the table.
that you can duplicate or replicate in other men and as a result of that they will be stronger, our church will be stronger and we can develop something special.
Ryan Franklin (48:04.27)
So you're encouraging the mentorship in that. Yeah.
Jerron Carney (48:04.731)
And Ryan, yes. then whenever, the beautiful thing about it was, these men had, most of them had never really vocalized, hey, this is what I do well. Like this is what I have that God has blessed me with, that I can begin to impart and mentor other people.
Ryan Franklin (48:19.886)
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Franklin (48:29.838)
So they all of a sudden saw it as a worthy kingdom investment. this is a kingdom thing. And I've already got it.
Jerron Carney (48:38.45)
It revolutionized. Yes. But I mean, I saw men that I had never seen cry. I saw tears falling off their face. Whenever they, you know, they began to internalize and also vocalize, hey, I do have something that other men need. And it started building courage in that room. And I'm telling you, I have taken those 12 men.
Ryan Franklin (48:47.288)
That's awesome.
Jerron Carney (49:04.945)
and I'm building the rest of the men's ministry at Woodlawn. And it started the day that they realized I've got something to offer and we can do this.
Ryan Franklin (49:08.973)
Wow.
Ryan Franklin (49:15.662)
So you just gathered, you chose 12 men, gathered them together and just started having conversations with them about this, encouraging mentorship, encouraging them to use what they have to invest in somebody else. And that kind of created sort of a small movement within your church.
Jerron Carney (49:29.736)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (49:38.417)
Yeah, and I will say this, I think the secret sauce of that was I did not come to those 12 men with all the answers.
Ryan Franklin (49:42.68)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (49:48.987)
I brought them to the table and I said, this is what I see and I need help creating a solution for where we are. And when men begin to get their voice and they begin to speak up and say, hey, we can do this and maybe we should try this. I think too many times we go to the table with all the answers.
Ryan Franklin (49:51.246)
That's good.
Ryan Franklin (49:57.966)
That's so good.
Ryan Franklin (50:10.252)
That is so true.
Jerron Carney (50:11.761)
But men more than anybody need to feel like I've got something to offer.
Ryan Franklin (50:18.53)
But let me point out here, I'm hearing in your voice you came to the table with maybe 50, 60 % of a plan. Like you had a vision for what you wanted to accomplish. And then you allowed them to build the other 40, 50 % of the plan. It probably took a lot of the pressure off of you. But at the same time, it empowered them and felt like allowed them to feel accepted and to have a seat at the table.
Jerron Carney (50:39.347)
Hehehe.
Ryan Franklin (50:48.502)
and to feel valued, which is a tremendous motivator for people.
Jerron Carney (50:57.041)
Yeah, and I will say this, like the plan that we have now is not the plan that I would have come up with. And I've had to...
Ryan Franklin (51:03.288)
Wow.
Jerron Carney (51:07.175)
I've had to come to grips with that. Like, I didn't, I...
Ryan Franklin (51:07.213)
Wow.
Ryan Franklin (51:10.476)
You mean you didn't micromanage this process?
Jerron Carney (51:15.613)
Sometimes I can, but I did not in this particular situation. It's just so organic, but it just feels right. And if you want people's buy-in, especially men, you gotta give them a seat at the table, and you gotta let their voice matter.
Ryan Franklin (51:17.966)
That's good.
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (51:34.914)
so true. That's so true. That's a powerful statement right there. Say that one more time.
Jerron Carney (51:41.989)
If you want to build something special, you got to give men a seat at the table and they have to know that their voice matters.
Ryan Franklin (51:51.992)
that their voice matters. Yeah. That's powerful. That is powerful. Jaren, as, as we start kind of wrapping this up and bring it to a close, if somebody is wanting to build a, implement a similar program for men in their, in their own communities, you've given them advice already. Is there any additional advice that you would,
want to say or encourage or whatever.
Jerron Carney (52:25.885)
Yeah, I do. Because I've had to to grips with this, Ryan. is...
I've had to change the way I think about success. know, Woodlawn is a place that we do big events well. We try to do things with excellence. And I have attributed success to attendance and to large group gatherings. And hey, if I can put 200 men in the room, that's a win.
Ryan Franklin (52:45.368)
Yes.
Ryan Franklin (52:56.419)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (53:01.767)
That does not build men.
Ryan Franklin (53:05.304)
so true.
Jerron Carney (53:06.511)
And because I've had the wrong view of, of, you know, how do we tackle this problem for too long? I have kicked the, you know, the can down the road when I should have been, you know, focusing on what I am now and starting small, building something special. What I didn't say earlier.
Ryan Franklin (53:23.127)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (53:35.205)
is now those 12 men, it's turned into men.
Ryan Franklin (53:40.951)
my goodness.
Jerron Carney (53:42.835)
And we're okay with that. We're okay that it's not 200 right now because we see what's happening. And so I just want to encourage you that are trying to get something started in your church or organization you lead. Don't be defined by numbers.
Ryan Franklin (53:48.439)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (53:53.07)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (54:06.766)
In other words, focus on the people that the Lord puts in front of you.
Jerron Carney (54:15.015)
build build the men that you have.
Jerron Carney (54:21.565)
confidence in that you know that they can share your same heartbeat and I'm reading a Book called the multiplication effect by Mac Lake right now. I highly recommend it and Ryan that's exactly you know, we we've got to build a pipeline and It's amazing the power of multiplication
But if you're like me, you've wanted to get your hands around it and we're gonna fix this in three months or we're gonna fix this in six months. And it has, it's delayed what I feel like is so key to the growth of the apostolic church as we move forward. And can I share just real quick, just like, so this.
Ryan Franklin (55:18.094)
Please.
Jerron Carney (55:20.371)
My pastor is Aaron Soto from Wisconsin and a few years ago my wife and I went and did a marriage retreat there and You know we got to the marriage retreat I've never been to a marriage retreat where they started off with a worship, know, it's typically, you know crowd breaker fun that sort of thing but we're we're in there and They started off with worship and when they did run
Ryan Franklin (55:25.39)
I'm Endless Man.
Jerron Carney (55:51.131)
I turned to my wife and I said, Ooh, there is something different about this place. Like there was a depth of worship at a marriage retreat, you know? And honestly, when you're in a marriage retreat and it's off site, like a man's mind is way away from worship. Okay. But there was, there was a depth that they immediately went into. And then that Sunday I went to their church. It was just a
It was just beautiful. I just cannot explain just the maturity. I think that's the word I'm looking for. Just the maturity that it was just very evident. And so later, obviously, I'm spending time with Brother Soto and I'm like, can you tell me what that is? I want that where I'm at. I want that at Woodline. And without hesitation, he said, it's men's ministry.
Ryan Franklin (56:27.896)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (56:51.035)
He said, I have one of the strongest men's ministries in the apostolic church. He said, and the depth of the church comes from the men. It changed my whole paradigm. And it has literally gave me the direction that I am today. Like I am committed to building men in this local church.
because I believe it's the secret to what we've been missing and what we haven't focused on. And it's easy for us to let the women lead. It's easy for us, especially in a spiritual sense because back to men, we don't want the guard down. don't want to be so vulnerable.
Ryan Franklin (57:30.028)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (57:40.302)
And for clarification there, we do want women to lead, but men have got to step up.
Jerron Carney (57:47.929)
Absolutely. I'm pleased. I didn't mean that we don't want, you know, I'm just, yeah, okay.
Ryan Franklin (57:49.23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (57:55.382)
No, didn't say that. You didn't say that. But it just crossed my mind because there are some tremendous female leaders that are gifted. have all the right components of their personality to be able to effectively lead. But there is something about a man stepping up and doing what he's need versus a man taking a back seat and not engaging.
and not doing their part. it's just as important for a woman to step up and do their part. But obviously our conversation is on men today. And that is a strengthening thing, a strengthening thing for a church. And I'm so thankful that you've shared some of these things with us today. I do have one more question that's
off-topic, but before we do that, is there anything else on men's ministry or men in general that you haven't shared that you want to share?
Jerron Carney (59:04.198)
You know, think we've covered, you know, kind of my heart. just want to emphasize.
Jerron Carney (59:15.655)
We have to get this right.
Ryan Franklin (59:17.836)
We do. Yeah.
Jerron Carney (59:19.575)
And I think in our own movement, like you can look at, you know, the budgets of all the departments.
And it's the same way in our church. The men's department has the smallest budget.
of any other budget within the UBC or in our local church.
Ryan Franklin (59:45.42)
Yeah.
Jerron Carney (59:47.633)
We invest in what we value.
And so we've got to put more of a focus on this topic because the church is missing it.
Ryan Franklin (59:59.31)
I agree.
Ryan Franklin (01:00:03.317)
I agree.
So last question, unrelated to the topic, I think.
What's one ritual or routine that helps Jaren Carney do what he does every day? You have a high productivity about your life besides devotion, just in a practical form. What's one ritual or routine that you do to help you do what you do every day?
Jerron Carney (01:00:39.591)
You know, I might not could have answered this a year ago, or at least not in this capacity, Ryan, but I have adopted the 12 week year mindset concept by Brian Moran. And it has changed the game for me because
Ryan Franklin (01:00:59.852)
I'm reading that book right now, yeah.
Jerron Carney (01:01:07.411)
I'm the guy that like I want to have 10 irons in the fire and I've got you know this going that going I've got my hands on this and I get to the end of the year and I'm like what did I accomplish? Like what what what I do? I stay busy I did a lot of stuff you know and and so the concept of this book is accomplished more in 12 weeks than most do in 12 months and
Ryan Franklin (01:01:19.864)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (01:01:36.307)
The secret to it is that you only focus on two to three things for those 12 weeks. And for me, it's a ministry goal, it's a health goal, and it's a personal goal. And so I have three things in my life right now that get 100 % of my attention for 12 weeks.
Now I've got a list made up of the things I want to accomplish after this 12 weeks is over, Ryan. But even then it will only be, you know, 12 weeks at a time. And uh...
Ryan Franklin (01:02:15.882)
And that likely gives you lot of motivation because if you don't start working on it now, you're not going to, 12 weeks is going to fly by and you're not going to accomplish it.
Jerron Carney (01:02:25.171)
Well, it magnifies the magnitude of the day. You've got to have such precision focus on those three things if you're going to make a difference in 12 weeks.
Ryan Franklin (01:02:40.878)
Mm-hmm.
Jerron Carney (01:02:42.749)
but it has changed the way that I get up, that I'm motivated. And I'm constantly adding things that I want to be on that list one day, but it's made me be more patient in those areas because I genuinely feel that if I really give these three things my focus for 12 weeks, it's kind of like that 90-day radical accountability plan.
you know, I put at the forefront gets done. Yeah, I mean, if you've ever been ready to go on vacation, and the day before you go on vacation is the most productive day of the whole month, you know, because you got so much you gotta get done. It's the same mindset. And so it has changed my life and changed the way that I lead.
Ryan Franklin (01:03:15.394)
Yeah, it's life changing. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (01:03:28.331)
Absolutely.
Ryan Franklin (01:03:40.022)
Name that book and author one more time, if you don't mind.
Jerron Carney (01:03:43.857)
The 12 week year by Brian Moran. It's been around a while. Like I just got introduced to it. I got my staff, you know, they're also, you know, it's good to have, they promote weekly accountability meetings. They call them whams, you know, so that's good when you're, again, you're feeding off of one another, building one another.
Ryan Franklin (01:03:47.146)
Okay. Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (01:03:55.854)
Yeah.
Ryan Franklin (01:04:09.336)
Yeah. I just started reading that book and I was trying to think as you were talking about it, you were actually the one that recommended that book to me. And it is a, it is a true, I'm about halfway through. is a tremendous book and worthy of the time that it would take to read it for sure.
Jerron Carney (01:04:18.459)
I gotcha.
Jerron Carney (01:04:28.524)
I mean it's not life changing as far as anything you've never heard before but it just puts it in a way.
Ryan Franklin (01:04:32.877)
It's the organization of it that I see that is tremendous.
Jerron Carney (01:04:39.205)
And I've went all in. I ordered the workbooks and all of that just because I've seen such great results.
Ryan Franklin (01:04:45.804)
Yeah. Well, Pastor Jaren, thank you so much for joining us today. I greatly appreciate your time. It's again, I know your time is extremely valuable and I know our audience is going to enjoy this episode and the things that you've had to say today. So thank you for that.
Jerron Carney (01:05:07.133)
Well, the honor has been all mine and thank you for what you do, Ryan. You're a leader in our movement and I'm honored to call you my friend.
Ryan Franklin (01:05:17.922)
Thank you for that. If people want to connect with you online in some form or fashion, I know you're an extremely giving person from small groups, the different things that are going on in your church, you often will help others. And if people want to connect with you and see what you're doing online, where would they find you online?
Jerron Carney (01:05:19.667)
Stay at it.
Jerron Carney (01:05:44.157)
You know, I'm on Facebook and Twitter. I don't ever get on Facebook to scroll, but Messenger is still active. Obviously, our church website, woodlandchurch.cc, my email is there. you know, welcome to call the church. I'm very accessible.
Ryan Franklin (01:06:03.789)
Yeah.
Even just to even just to lurk a little bit on woodland.cc would be would be helpful to people because I know you guys do everything you do you do it with excellence and and I would encourage people to check out your church you have you're going to be relaunching your podcast pretty soon as well
Jerron Carney (01:06:30.383)
Yes, in fact we just relaunched that. It's called Woodlawn Talks and excited about season three that we just launched. It's more of a practical, do we live out the Sunday word? Obviously it speaks to our church because they just heard that Sunday message, but I think it will help our audience today.
Ryan Franklin (01:06:58.666)
Absolutely. Well, again, thank you for coming on.
Jerron Carney (01:07:04.125)
Thank you, Ryan, and good luck for your podcast this year and continue to do good things.
Ryan Franklin (01:07:12.686)
Thank you. Thank you so much. So this concludes our show today. My name is Ryan Franklin. Thank you so much for joining us on the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast.
Jerron Carney (01:07:15.047)
God bless.
Copyright © 2025 Ryan Franklin. All rights reserved.
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