In this episode, Tim Gaddy shares his expertise on overcoming common pitfalls and increasing your leadership capacity. With years of experience as a senior pastor and district superintendent, Tim discusses what leadership capacity truly means and how leaders can identify areas for growth. He emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, taking risks, and maintaining submission to God. Listeners will also gain insights into overcoming challenges like comparison and insecurity, along with practical tools to enhance their leadership potential. Tune in for valuable strategies that can transform your leadership journey!
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Transcript
Welcome to the Christian leader made simple show. And today, we have a very special guests, district superintendent and pastor Tim Ga. Pastor Tim Ga is such a humble and an una assuming person that I wanna make sure that you know a little bit of his bio here. Tim Ga is originally from Chicago area and has called Arkansas Home since 19 92 for for a few more weeks, he is the senior pastor of new life church in Cabo, Arkansas. But is already transitioning to become the bishop in just a few weeks when this episode will post.
And since 2017, Tim has also served as the district Superintendent of Arkansas, where he focuses on helping leaders increase their influence and impact within their environments, churches and wherever they may be. And with over 3 decades of marriage, to his wife, Stacy and his 2 grown children madison and landon. Tim really, III have to say inspires me when, look at his life, what all he's done in ministry and his values of such a strong family and the relationships that he has there. I think that that is 1 of his greatest qualities actually from a from a distance from what I see from a distance. So, Pastor Tim Ga, welcome to the show Thank you, Ryan.
It's great to join you, and I really appreciate the privilege of being on with you today. I've admired you for a long time. I count you as a dear friend. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for agreeing. To do this, I know you're a very busy man, regularly traveling the globe and doing all sorts of things. So thank you for being willing to take some time out for our audience. Sure. Love.
So you've been the district superintendent since 2017, and, I love how practical that you are with your leadership teaching. That's 1 of the things that I've always admired about you and have seen from, you know, in every instance that I've heard you teach. Is that you you always have a lot of wisdom and and and solid content to say, but it's always practical as well. And I'm just curious, what have you learned along this journey of moving to high moving to high level leadership as you are in at this at this time. What does that talk you to how has that talk to you to him, Have to cut that out.
No problem. Teach. Okay. I understand now. Sorry.
No problem. So you've been the district superintendent since 2017, and I love how practical that you are with your leadership teaching. That's 1 thing I admire about your your teaching, full of wisdom, but also practicality. I'm just curious what have you learned along this journey of moving to high level leadership that has taught you to impart wisdom with such practicality. Well, that's a a great question, Ryan, and I've told people before, I feel like I am baptized with a real life.
Like, if people are looking for, you know, deep, deep spiritual revelation with what I'm sharing. They're probably gonna be a little disappointed. You know, certainly, God uses real people. And if we peel back the layers of scripture, we will see people, that are pretty much like me and you, and yet God has chosen in his providence and his grace throughout time, to take mortal men and mortal women and use them for his purpose and hopefully for his glory And so I think it's important that we keep our feet rooted on the ground and, never drink the Ko aid so to speak about who we are because we're just vessels that the lord is choosing to use. And that that can help us from being arrogant or proud or pre.
And and so I just try to live my life and then share hopefully some things from time to time with people that maybe they can identify with. And it can be a little self deprecating at times, but that's real life. You know, we we live within that real context. So, I'm grateful for any opportunity I have to share something that I've dealt with, something I'm currently dealing with, and and hopefully, glean some wisdom together with it. Yeah.
And that's 1 thing that I've... As I mentioned in the bio at the beginning is 1 thing I admire about you is is how you are definitely humble. And you don't... It it seems that though you don't let any any of this go to your head, your... The leadership roles that you may would have, the opportunities that you have, you always take a humble approach to it.
And, you know, you have every reason to be arrogant. You have a lot of wisdom that flows from you. Yet, you you don't do that, and it's and it's very much a practical stance, and and I would I would agree that flows out of a place that, you know, of real life. And I I love that answer to that. It it flows out of a place of real life where you've been there done that.
And and have experienced a lot of the things that you would teach. You're not just teaching from a book you're teaching for life. Yeah. Realize. I think that's the that's the greatest guide book to use for for teaching his life, and, you know, we see that born out in scripture, it's really the story of God's interaction with man.
And from 1 cover to the other. It's examples and lives and of good things, bad things, struggles, victories, but we find instruction through that in scripture. And I I just don't think that it should be any different today. So... I love that.
I love that. So we're here today to really dive into the subject of leadership, effectiveness and and and even capacity. And when you talk about, increasing leadership effectiveness or capacity. However you wanna say that? What does that mean to you personally?
Well, when I consider capacity, my mind immediately goes back, Ryan to the mid 2 thousands because in the context of my role as a pastor, I was 29 when I began pastor, we planted a church in 19 99. And at the time, when we planted the church, it was me Stacy, our daughter, Madison who was a year and a half old, and 1 other lady whose house we had the first service in. So we had a grand total, a wonderful congregation of 4 people. And that's pretty manageable. Even for me, that's pretty manageable.
And so it was easy to kinda keep up with that. And then, as we went along in the early days of our church, we began to grow. And we grew numerically. And I wanna be clear our growth was never this massive instantaneous type of 1 Sunday. We have a few in the next Sunday.
It's a massive group of people, and It was just AAA steady growth that God has allowed us to have over 25 years that we've been here in Cabo now, But I I remember distinctly in the mid 2 thousands, we were probably averaging 90 to a hundred people that would call our church their home. And that doesn't mean they were all there at the same time, but that was kinda what if you would call the database of people that we had. And I have to be very candid with you. I will stretched. It was stretching me to keep up administrative with 90 to a hundred people.
And when I say that what I mean is, you know, special events in their lives, information about them things that would help me care for them. And and when you have 4 people, that's 1 thing. But when you have more people and this is just a leadership principle. It just... It becomes less and less able as far as 1 person to handle all of that, And and and in a greater sense, it was during that time that my capacity for leading was being tested.
So I look back on this time, ryan, and I think it was, like a waters shed moment for me. I have to make this decision. What am I going to do? And it wasn't as though I made this intentional draw a line in the sand decision, but I began to make decisions and I I attribute it to influences that I had in my life, people leaders that I have followed and we've had been very influential in my life. Decisions were made to expand capacity.
And when I think about capacity, I think of just really a definition is the maximum amount that something can contain or produce. And and it's interesting because I wasn't doing something wrong, but it was a stress that growth was bringing. You know, some people think well, when when leadership grows and when churches grow and in our context, it's just all wonderful and there's no difficulties. Well actually, that's not true. I I say this when I when I teach church growth, leadership causes issues.
There there's no way around it. You know, more more people, more issues, more... Potential problems, but also growth was providing me with a great opportunity. And I began to ask a question, who can I bring alongside me to share these administrative responsibilities? And and 2 things came crystal clear to me.
Number 1, if I do this, I'm gonna care more adequately for the current membership of our church. So that's first and foremost. But secondly, and perhaps equally is important. It would increase my capacity to influence those people in our church. And here's the thing.
And more people that I haven't met yet. And so it was this twofold fold decision and series of decisions that really produce continued growth and care for our church. And so, I I think it's huge and when... And I think ministers and and leaders can find these moments in their life, especially when you look back on it and say that was an important time because it was a stress or time, but it was an opportunity. And that is when I really began to deserve this whole idea of leadership capacity and the absolute necessity of it.
That's really good. And I'm and I'm hearing that as as you went, you you likely recognized your... Where you currently stood, and then you also identified areas for growth. How can a leader identify their current leadership effectiveness and capacity and really 0 in on areas that they need to grow in. Yeah.
You know what? I think first of all, we have to ask the question. In order to identify our capacity, who am I currently leading. You know, if we don't know where we're starting from, we really don't know where we could go. And so, you know, in some aspects, that's a pretty simple answer, if for instance you're, a pastor of a church.
Hopefully, it's the people in that church that you're leading. But that's not the only question I think that we need to be asking as leaders, we also have to be asking the question. And this is 1 that's unique in my life right now is to whom is my heart leaning. And let me explain what I mean by that. When Stacy and I, a while ago, began to work through this pastor succession plan that we're in right now at our church.
We began to sense God leading us toward missionary care. And what I what I mean by that is I'm not talking about becoming a missionary and moving overseas, but we began to have several opportunities to step into the lives of missionaries. And care for them and guide them and encourage them. And, Ryan, you know what this is like. It's 1 thing when you see 1 opportunity.
But then it's another thing when you see multiple opportunities and you begin to sense that maybe be god is directing and god is guiding towards something and allowing your heart to be drawn towards something that is new and is gonna require more capacity in your leadership. And so God in his grace allowed this to start happening right around the time that we were beginning this pastor oral succession plan. And so as 1 thing is moving away, another thing is coming on the scene with regards to our heart to and where God and 1 of the things that god is leaning leading us toward. And so that's a question. I think we can ask ourselves as leaders as to whom is my heart leaning.
Thirdly, and I think this is something that I was candid with just a few minutes ago what are the areas in my leadership that are suffering because of growth? What needs to be worked on? What are the areas that are going unmet because this is an indicator. Hey, capacity needs to change capacity needs to increase in leadership? And and then I think, a a good question to ask as well is what areas are prosper in in our lives.
What are the areas of strength that we can lean into more and then resource the challenges in our life? And I think this speaks to the whole idea of leaning into our strengths and not trying to be a well rounded leader, but truly being an effective leader in how God has wired us. So those are just some of the areas I think we can use to identify where we need to increase our leadership capacity. So so looking at... And just kinda digging in there just a little bit more.
Whom is my heart leaning leaning or leading, leaning. Who's who's leaning leaning towards Who's my heart leaning towards? I would imagine that you know, typically, and and you can speak to your experience with, you know, working with other other pastors and leaders. Our heart is typically gonna line up with, our gifting, our strengths, our weaknesses, our heart and, you know, where the Lord is is sort of pushing us towards is that they're typically gonna line up. Right?
I think so. I think so because I think where our, especially our strengths, that's where we find the greatest fulfillment, at least I do. Yeah. It's in the it's in the areas of my challenges that I don't just get up in the morning and say. Man I wanna spend all day on those.
Yeah. So I think on heart is it it it leans toward that. Yeah. Yeah. 1 is a drain to you and energy and an emotional drain to you, and then 1...
Maybe hard work, but it fills you and and leaves you full of energy at the end of the day. That's right. And that's... And I think the Lord designed us, you know, he knows the beginning from the end. He designed us that way, so that we can lean into our strengths and and do do tremendous things through him and still have energy at the end of the at the end of the day.
I think that's a that's a good thing Now, that doesn't mean that we can't do hard things that are against our grain that the Lord Empowers us to do. They're supernatural things, but typically, I would say a good percentage of our of our life would would really need to lean into those strengths and and weaknesses this. I think you're you're right on with that because whereas, I think there are seasons, I don't think we ever graduate from being. 1 who serves in the kingdom of god in the church. That's gotta be part of the integrity of our character.
However, I think that there are seasons in our life that if I can use this term, it's all hands on deck as far as what we do. We do the things that we enjoy and we do the things that we don't enjoy because of necessity, I know for a church as a church planter, and that's my context. Over the years, I've done things that I truly found great satisfaction in. And then as a church planter because we didn't have people to help with those things. I did those those things that I didn't enjoy as well.
But I think that it's important as a leader grows and the church grows and ministry grows and and your environment of growth happens that you don't stag and you don't... Learn to lean in to perhaps truly how god has wired you and then bring other people around you to help in those areas of challenges. So I think it's a little nuance there. I don't think it's, you know, right to to j lean into your strengths and and wrong so to... I think it's a little nuance, and I think even some of it has to agree life as well.
Yeah. I would agree. Wholeheartedly. So when you identify areas and recognize areas that you need to grow in that you, you know, you have a desire to increase your capacity because you feel the lord pushing you in a certain... Your heart is leaning in a certain direction, what's the most effective ways to to keep learning and keep expanding our leadership ability.
Well, I think you said it right there. The first thing I'll mention is we've got to commit to keep learning. And we've got to keep keep implementing. Fresh ideas, sharpening the blades so to speak on our leadership. And so 1 of the things that I tried to have in my life is I ask questions like Tim, what book are you reading right now?
And I know that you're just a wonderful example of this Ryan. What are you reading to grow your area of ministry. And it may be a new book. It may be a an old book. It might be on an ebook book.
It might be... You know, you might be old fashioned like me. And You actually like to hold a book in your hand. But what what are you reading and and and where does Scott have you in your leadership right now? What is a resource that you can learn more about in...
You're telling me you... You, you're telling me that you haven't arrived? I mean, Well, yeah. That's a great to no, sir. No, sir.
Yeah. You gotta keep learning. You have to keep learning. And you know, I think 1 of the... 1 of the greatest dangers in leadership in Christian leadership is sometimes success.
Yeah. Because success, if we're not careful, can provide us with this I finally arrived sufficiency, resource, so true. And and and that's a good thing. Thank God for that, but that's not the kingdom. The kingdom is an ever increasing kingdom.
It is something, in fact, I isaiah 9 and 6 says this of the increase of his government in peace, there shall be no end. So as long as we're in kingdom leadership. We're in we're in a an environment that never ends it the growth never ends and so on. The leaders need to embody that as well. And so, yes, we have to keep growing.
We have not arrived yet. You know, who are we talking to for the purpose of helping grow our ministries. 1 of the things Ryan that is is interesting. III wrote this down the other day in my journal, and it was, it was something that I felt the Lord speak to me about, and that's this. I cannot stop asking questions in order to get better.
You know, you get to a certain place where you've had a few years and and of experience in something. And yes, you develop a little bit of a way of of understanding and and and all that, but we can get better. And we should get better. And are there people in our lives who we are proactively asking questions to them. Maybe they're a little bit ahead of us or we we perceive that they're a leader that's on down the road and experience a little bit from us.
Are we proactively asking them questions in order to grow our ministries, not just hey, how are you doing? And there... There's time for that certainly, but in order to go tell me about. That's 1 of my favorite ways to start a conversation, tell me about reason since that's that's good. Tell me about.
But even a appear I was gonna mention even a peer. Sure. Iron sharpening iron. Yes. You know, that it doesn't have to be a mentor.
Right. It it can absolutely be a peer. Certainly concerned. Yeah. 1 more time.
Can you... Can you mention that question that you? If you Yeah. Well, the the... As far as for people that are we're reaching out to?
Yes. Yeah. What I like to... Well, the what I wrote down in my journal if that's what you're mentioning there what Wrote down on a journal is, who am I asking questions to in order to get better in my leadership? Who am I asking questions too.
And at different seasons of life, that's gonna be a different person, but and, you know, trusted resources, trusted people in our lives. You know, I think another thing that we... That can help us. And facilitate growing our capacity is just trying something. I think too often.
And again, my opinion here, I think too often, we can get in a routine of the same type of output because it's comfortable. It's systematic. It's predictable, but it might not, you know, what works today in in the church I lead. May not work and I'm not talking about doctor and all that, but I'm talking about methods ideas. Jesus talked a lot about, you know, putting wine in certain wine skins.
And if you put new wine in an old wine skin, it's gonna burst, and you're gonna not gonna be able to contain. And and so I I think we have to be willing to try something. And and and and here's the thing it might not work. Yeah. But it might.
And, you know, every... In other words, take a risk. Take a risk. Take risk because every great idea, was at 1 point a new idea. But it was just given...
It just had some mileage given to it, tried it out, and it became a great idea. And so, I think in the church world, maybe speak to that later. But you, we think maybe we wanted to try something. What would you tell the individual that like me? I'm typically risk at adverse.
I'm not impulsive. I I struggle with trying new things. What would you tell somebody like me? That struggles with that because it's such an important part of of a leader's life any leader's life? Sure.
Well, what I would say is the value of trying something new can actually, the the thing that's the most valuable about it may not be what is obvious at first. Let me give you an example. So several years ago, we were in a different facility. It was our old, what's called the old sanctuary was now our chapel before we built our new building. And we were running out of space on Sundays.
We didn't have room for everybody, and we were really capping our growth, and we would get up to a certain place and we would come back down and get up to a certain place and come back to. And so as our leadership team, we were always trying to find new ways to continue growth and moving kids to have class during the service and move people around, make more room in the in the Sanctuary. And so we decided to try something. And it was brand new. We'd never done it before, and it was simply to set up a live feed in 1 of the classrooms in the other part of our building.
And ask for about 20 to 25 people every Sunday on kind of a rotating basis so the same people weren't in there every Sunday to come and be in the overflow room and be a part of service on the live stream, so that that would open up 20 to 25 other seats in the sanctuary, again, give us a little bit more room for people to come into the main sanctuary. And and the unique thing about this Ryan is the room that we chose to use was literally through the wall of the sanctuary. So, like, you could hear the actual service going on through the wall, as well as watch it on the live stream on on the screen. And, you know, we tried to do it in a really effective way. We made the screen big enough to where, you know, when I was preaching or whoever was administering that day, they were more life sized because of the size of the screen to make it a little bit more visually appealing to the...
To the viewers and those participating in that And I, you know, I had these Grand Ideas, man, people are gonna get on board with this, and this is gonna be the the thing we need to take us to the next level. And I wanna be real honest with you. It just didn't work. And we did it for about 2 or 3 months, and we would have it and that the people were so sweet in our church. They rotated in, and I remember 1 time during the worship service.
I kinda slipped out of the main sanctuary and I went to the room. And I watched people. And they were trying to worship, you know, and act like it was the real service that they were in the main service. And so they were wonderful with that. But I did hear some people say, well, it's just not the same as being in the main sanctuary.
So on the surface, and here's the point I'm getting it on the surface, trying something did not produce the actual result that I was hoping. And so we didn't continue it. We stopped it after 2 or 3 months. But it did produce something that was perhaps far more valuable than just 25 or 30 seats for a while. And that was this increased flexibility in our church to try something for a kingdom purpose.
And so what I would say this is in response to your question. What I would say that that the value sometimes in getting out of the box and trying something. The the lasting value may not even be what happens in the immediate, but the culture it produces and the environment of growth that it produces. And and I think what people saw is we're willing to try something to get more people in this building And so that... That's 1 of the benefits of try.
It's risky. Yes. Because it may not work, but it can produce 1 of bit. Things. And if I might even just add to that a little bit in regards to...
People like me that maybe risk at first. I know that I have to to try new things, hard things, risky things, and that's not in my nature. So many times, I will gather somebody around me that is a little bit risky, is a little bit impulsive to help join in with with me on that initiative or or idea or whatever to sort of give me the motivation to move past that risk side of me. Is that is that... I mean, you have I have taken you in as a safe calculated person as well, not risk at adverse, but safe and calculated.
Is that kinda how you have... Yeah. Have operated or... Yes. And you have me right on that.
I am a systematic guy. I'm Yeah. Kind of structured guy that's kind of my my makeup, and I think that's how Gotten make made me and perhaps how he made you. But I think your point about who you pull close to you is a great point because the spirit of a person rubs off. And I need people around me that are not always just like me.
I need people to challenge me through their conversations they have, get you out of your box. Absolutely. You love to live in. I love we all love to live. Yes.
Yeah. Because that is... That's a safe place. And and and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. There's...
You know, that's human nature. We like to be comfortable and and and and systematic in what we're doing. But if we're going to grow and and increase our capacity. It is going to require. And I know this is just so true.
It's gonna require some un uncomfortable places. The the new testament is full of this. You know, Ryan, I was thinking the other day, and when when the the promise was given to the early church and the the believers in the early church you're gonna be witnesses in Jerusalem and Judy and so Mary the most parts of the earth. It's 1 thing to hear that and think wow. We're gonna impact the world.
But then we get a little bit later in the book of acts, and the bible says, that's because of persecution, they were scattered everywhere. And then there's this little phrase stuck in there, and they went everywhere preaching the word in J and Sam area and around the world. And so it was the uncomfortable things. That caused the growth, Not the... Great point.
And not the things that just are systematic. And and, again, I'm not against being systematic. That's my nature. But we've got have people around us the challenges. Yeah.
And you're a great example of that. You've done you've done big things, even being a systematic. And I didn't wanna paint you in that box if that were not you. No. It's it's true.
It's true. And and the reality of it is is you have done big things and significant things in life and in ministry in your local church and even around the world, and, you know, it's... So thank you for thank you for going there and and and talking about some of the things that would push you out of that box. I'm listening I'm I'm giving ear to it as well myself. Sure.
So what role does submission and god submission to God and and and authority in your life, play in increasing this leadership capacity. I know that that's a big part of ministry and what we do in in ministry and and and trying to fulfill the will of the Lord. What is submission to God authority, how does that play in into leadership capacity? Well Ryan, when you ask that question, and I hear the echo of my pastor voice from years ago when I was growing up, and it pastor Ce Card would say, God will never bless a man who is not submitted. And and I I can close my eyes and hear him saying that right now.
And so from a child, I was taught that the pathway to growth always comes with submission. So it's a part of the Dna of a Christian. It's part of the Dna of a believer. And I wanna reference again, a verse that I I mentioned just a few minutes ago in Isaiah when the prophet, was talking about this child being born. And we talk a lot at Christmas time about this verse, but child being born, a son being given the government will be on his shoulders.
His name she'll be called a wonderful counselor, Mighty god ever last father. Prince peace. And then the verse that follows that great revelation of the messiah of the increase of his government in peace, there shall be no end. And so it's a wonderful passage to read. It's a wonderful passage to ponder on.
But I I have this habit of asking the question when I read things, you know, how does that endless increase happen? Is it just because the messiah has come? And and I was reading after reading in Isaiah, I was reading in John chapter number 02:12 where Jesus said this? He said the... Command of the father is life ever last.
And so Jesus, the perfect embodiment of flesh submitted to spirit, said it is the word of the father, that is life ever lasting. It's when flesh is submitted to spirit that it becomes an ever lasting kingdom. And so when I stay submitted to god. And when I stay submitted to spiritual leaders in my life I open myself up to a kingdom that has a limit. I open up in a in a greater sense, I open up my influence to be able to increase exponentially.
Because god looks at a life that is submitted as I can trust that man. I can trust that woman. And so, you know, we get to the new testament in the book of acts chapter 13, which is the pattern and the template for the new testament church is the actions of the apostles. And, in acts 13, it lists all these individuals, the first verse. And the Bible says there were prophets and there were teachers and yet, they minister to the Lord and and I don't know how you are and how the the listeners of this podcast are, but there are certain words that jump out at me when I read scriptures says they minister to the Lord.
They prayed and fasted. And then the Holy ghost set, separate to me, Barn and saul for the work that I have for them. And then the scripture says, and they set laid hands on them, prayed over them and sent them forth. And so in these 3 verses in this initial pushing forth of the the kingdom expanding, broadening the the capacity of the church beyond antioch, we see submission. Front and center.
We see people mutually submitted to 1 another, and that mutual submission pave the way for the capacity of the church to grow. You just... We can't get away from it. Submission is check get away from. Can't get away from it.
Yeah. So in our preparation for for this podcast, you mentioned some common pitfalls, you named 4 of them, can we talk through those those 4 and and how to even overcome the those that be okay? Oh, certainly. 1 of the first that I think of is in order to increase my capacity. I can't get lost in the weeds with the details.
And this is this is 1 that is difficult from. Yeah. Guilty is charged, this is 1 that's difficult for me too because I'm a detailed kinda guy. Yeah. But, but, fact, I was talking to a pastor last night about this very topic, and he was asking me for some help and in his context on this.
At some point as we grow in leadership. We have to be willing to delegate details out to other people. And the risk that is that they may not do it exactly. And, hopefully, we've communicated what's important and the the overall, excellence that we were wanting and things like that. But we do have to as capacity grows in leadership, you know, acts 6 is a great example of this, they had to be willing to delegate the serving of the tables to others so that the apostles could give themselves to prayer in the ministry of the work.
So it is a new testament principle. And we can't get lost in the details. I was preaching years ago somewhere between the North pole and the South pole. And, I walked into a church and the assistant pastor was kinda showing me around. And he he said, I wanna show you something.
We walked into the sanctuary. And he said, I want you to look up here, and we went to the front of the Sanctuary up in the altar area. He just kinda motion down to the floor. He said, look that. And I...
It was 1 of those moments I was trying really hard to figure out what he was talking about, but I was clueless. And I I was I was looking wondering what he was talking about. He said, isn't that isn't that beautiful? And I was wanting to say, yes, it, but I didn't know what he was talking about. So I finally said, Bro, I need some help.
What are you talking about? He said, look at the way the carpet is vacuum. And then I saw it. And Ryan, I don't know how to explain this. But in these perfect symmetrical lines, this vacuum had run through the altar back through the altar back through the altar back.
And then whoever was doing the vacuuming, once they did that, they went the other way. So it was like this checker board pattern, and they went through the altar and back through the altar and back. And and I mean, it was so impressive. And I... Then, you know, then I wanted to act, like, I...
Had really seen it and I said, well, that that really is impressive. I said, so you must have a really diligent custodian or jan here, and he just looked at me like, I was crazy, he said, oh, no. Our pastor does this. And it takes him 3 minutes. 3 3 and a half hours every week to do this.
Oh, my goodness. And and and I'm sorry. I don't... I hope this doesn't come across judgment. In my mind, I'm thinking, No.
No. No. That's getting lost in the detail. That's getting lost in the weeds of things that, you know, are there gonna be people praying in those altar. How are we gonna get people praying to those altar not just pretty the altar.
And so I know that's kind of a weird example, but but we close an extreme example yet. Yep. There's... Yet, that happens in so many areas of of our lives, even my life. Yes.
Because I care about those details too much. Yes. Yes. And and so I think we need to do things with excellence, but then also empower others as our as our leadership goes to take care of the details. What do you think is before we move to that second 1, What do you think is is the most important key to delegation?
Well, certainly, whatever you find that's lacking that needs to be delegated because, for instance, something that if if if guests are not being, contacted or because of growth, Mh. People aren't being followed up on that kind of thing. We've got a... The the most pressing things we... And the most important things we've got reach to those first and delegate those but then also, some of the challenges as personally as leaders, some of the areas that are challenging to us that we we have people that we can shuffle that over to and say, hey, would you come alongside me?
And help me with this. So to recap, I think it's the the things that are pressing, but then also some of our challenges as well is a good starting place for some of the del of duties. Yeah. Let me second from? Yeah.
The second thing is comparison, and I think that this can be a pit fall in in growing our capacity because a lot of times, if I am comparing my leadership to somebody else. There is a high probability that I am comparing to someone that is not gifted like I am. Matthew 25 talks about the parable of the man that gave the talents. And to 1 he gave 5 to 1 gave to to 1 he gave 1. And I think first of all, we have to realize that not everybody is equally gifted in the kingdom.
No. Then the quicker we can understand that, the better off we're gonna be. Because I don't wanna be guilty as a 2 talent leader to be looking at a 5 talent leader and saying, while I'm not like them because I'm comparing apples and oranges there. I'm comparing 2 talent leaders to 5 talent leaders. And so the comparison thing can really be a paralyzing thing for leaders.
And so we have to resist that pit fall. And then closely related to that, I said, I would be number 3, and that is the fall of needing to constantly be affirmed. Yeah. Strokes complemented. That is...
Oh, that can be a a pit fall for leaders. Yeah. And and if... If you don't mind me just backing up to comparison just a moment. If the...
I I work with a... I have worked with a lot of leaders in helping them find their wiring and their strengths and and weaknesses and etcetera. And I will tell you this with, you know, having a do... Having having done a high powered assessment on... You know, 70 80 leaders.
Every 1 of them are as unique as, you know, our fingerprints are to 1 another. It's it's amazing. It's amazing how, unique and our wiring can be and how, you know, 1 may be gifted and leadership and and in prudence, the other may be gifted and, you know, the Arts kind of AAA world and and, you know, interpersonal sensitivity, and and there's so many variations to that. It's it's amazing how intricate different different people are, And so to compare ourselves, so it's really a you know, a a tough thing. And I'm so and...
I'm so Yeah. I'm I'm sorry. I didn't mean interrupt you. But. I'm glad...
I'm so glad you said that because... Ryan, and and you know this so well with the leaders that you you help every every week, for me to compare my leadership to somebody else, is to dev value the power of the body of Christ. Exactly. Yeah. It's very good.
That that I have to be a certain person. Hold on. Hold on Hold on. You just blinked out. So...
Okay. Go back to... I'm so glad you saw this. Okay. I'm so glad you said this.
Yeah. I'm so glad you said this, Ryan, because when I as a leader compare myself to somebody else. It it really minimizes what I think as an importance of the body of Christ. The body of Christ is so unique. It is...
He's the head where the body. And the head forms the body just like the head wants. And and and so for a leader to ins through actions, words, comparisons that that somehow they're less qualified because of how God made them really as an insult to the maker to the head, and it is a real mis of the power of the body of Christ. And so I'm so glad you said that The body of Christ is uniquely made, and Paul had some pretty powerful things to say about that to the Corinthians church. Absolutely.
And and that leads to what you were... Moving into the number 3 the need to be constantly affirmed, you know, that's... A lot of times that comes from from an insecure place yet, when we when we settle in to what we are really called to do what we're wired and made to do, you know, we will naturally get the needed and healthy affirmation from people around us Because that's what we're supposed to be doing. Right? That's exactly right.
And and I think that the real danger of this needing to be affirmed as you're saying. And and as I think, it's such a pit fall for leaders is too often if I'm needing to be affirmed all the time, I'm making calculated decisions so that I can be affirmed. And it's so it's it's not coming out of a truth. It's not for me out of a pure part. And and I don't think there's place in the kingdom for that.
It's a very dangerous thing went... Because that's rooted in pride. And. You know, so that coupled with that last part that you just mentioned about insecurity, we have to we have to war against that, and we have to protect ourselves against that because it's easy in humanity. To think that way, but it can be very dangerous for leaders.
Yeah. And, please disagree with me if you if you disagree here, But I I think that there is a need for affirmation and you know, validation even, but that would need to come in safe places in our inner circle from a mentor from a appear that we... That we trust and we... We're vulnerable with and transparent with. Would you agree with that or or?
I would... No. I would agree with that because that is the most valuable affirmation. Yeah because of those those people know us the best. Well, and it and it also keeps us from seeking that unhealthy affirmation in wrong places.
Yes. And you know... So I think it starts with number 1 finding our significance through our relationship with God. I think it has to start there. Because if I ever truly, and I know this is a completely different topic that we won't get into.
But if I ever truly understand what God thinks of me as his child. It's going to help me not seek the unhealthy affirmation simply from people in my peers. So it has to start with with what the Lord says about me, what I believe God thinks about me. But then to your point, and it's a great point. The the trusted people in our lives.
Yes. They are the ones that can provide not only needed affirmation, but the best affirmation because they truly see who we are. And that's a great point. Which moves us into the next point. They run hand in hand is is Your fourth 1.
What would that be? That insecurity. And I I referenced back to the passage in Matthew chapter 25 where the talents were given. And the bible says of the man who was given the 1 talent. And so let me just for purposes of this podcast, the leader that was a 1 talent leader.
He was afraid. And he told the Lord. He said, I hid the money. I I hid the talent. That is rooted in insecurity.
And insecurity can cause us to hide what God may be wanting to use to bring about increase in the kingdom of God. So this is why insecurity, we have to fight against this, and we have to ask the lord to to help us with this. And so that the that third and fourth point are are uniquely joined together the the need to be affirmed and in security, they they can be pitfalls we have to watch out for. Absolutely. Absolutely.
So moving past that a little bit back to more of... Assessing and growing your leadership potential, What practical tools or resources would you recommend church leaders that are looking to to assess and to grow their leadership potential? Well, I know you'll find this to be a complete shock, but the Christian leadership self assessment is a great tool, and the Christian leader made simple material, The podcast, all the resources. Ryan, You're doing great. You do a great job with that because I think...
And I'm referenced this earlier in our discussion, perhaps too often, I haven't assessed where I'm at. At first, in order to know where I need to grow and how much I can grow. And, you know, whereas, I don't know a pastor who wouldn't say, we want our church to grow. Or I know very few leaders that would wouldn't say, I want my leadership to grow. But in order to grow, we have to know where our starting places is.
And so you your your material, I think is a great. Resource and I really encourage all leaders. Thank you. And I And you said that just the way I asked you to to say yes. Well.
Yeah. Appreciate. You could catch that later on No, thank you for saying that. I I really appreciate that. And I do feel like that it is super important for us to assess where we are and sort of get a vision.
For what's gonna move the needle in our life to to grow our our leadership potential as you as you mentioned. And, you know, we have we have to have practical tools to do that. You know, you mentioned reading books, you know, we can we can go and get the next, you know, New New York Times best seller on, you know, how to improve our life in some way or whatever, or we can get laser focused. Assess, get a vision and get laser focused in our book reading. And and and if I know you correctly, you know, you're probably working towards some some particular growth in your life, So you're gonna gravitate 2 books that may would pertain to that.
Yes. Would you agree? Oh, I would. And, for instance, 1 of the books that I just, have read recently a successful succession. By Gary Tracy because it's uniquely where I'm at my life right now.
So to to your point about being laser focused. It's not just the quantity of reading. You know, yes. That helps us become more learned. But why are we reading?
What what what are we reading to help make us better. And 1 of the things that I have as a a desire my life is in this next season to write. And so I'm right now reading, on writing, practical things, things to keep in mind when you're beginning to write something. And, so we have to assess where we're at, You know, what is where it's Scott have us right now and then be true to, as you said, be just laser in on that and and and make it part of our our regular routine. You know, it's what we do often that builds our our leadership, not what we can.
So... Yeah. Anything else there? No. I I think that's that...
That's so important. That that laser focus leaning into a And and surround yourself with people that do that because they they remind you of that, they edi identify you, they built you up and that, they're a great example. So get get people around you that do that as well. And and I will mention, I'll give a a shameless plug here. You can go to my website, ryan franklin dot org, and you can take that Christian self assessment.
It will rate you on the 16 topics that I feel. That the Lord has given me to... It's it's a model called the Christian leader blueprint model that if you will systematically work through the 16 topics, it will it it will drastically increase your capacity, your personal capacity and leadership. And just in general, disciples ship and and, you know, how you relate to your wife and your kids and your... The people around you.
It's gonna help in in in all of those areas. And so I would encourage you. Go take that. It'll give you exactly what you need to focus on. And I always encourage people, look at the look at the top 3 growth opportunities that the that the assessment gives you and focus on those top 3 things.
Go find a book, you can start in the Christian leader blueprint book and I've got workbook to go along with that, can help you flesh out those topics. But when you get down with that, go find a book that would relate to that topic and just keep investing your time and energy in that, and I think it'll make a huge. Difference. Shameless plug there. That's great.
A little bit of a shift here. I, I just... I'm curious about this, you as a district superintendent. I know you see a lot of things in mainstream Christianity, we are seeing many churches decline in their in their attendance. We're hearing about it with various, you know, church consultants and things of that nature, how are you seeing that in Arkansas as a district superintendent?
Or are you seeing it? And maybe even speak to your travels? I know you travel all over the globe really, but particularly in America, Are you seeing that? You know what? Yeah.
I am sensing yet in some of the reports I've heard from outside, in the mainline denomination, and sadly, even in some evangelical denomination And I think it would be less than honest if we didn't say that perhaps some in pent spirit filled churches as well. However, Mh as I travel, I'm also seeing the flip side of that. And I'm singing some common denominators in churches that are truly growing. And I'm... When I say that I'm not just talking about numerically of people sitting in the in the the pews on Sunday morning or the financial you, status of the church.
Although, those are are metrics, obviously. But I'm seeing some common denominators. And so whereas mainline churches, denomination churches, some of whom may be in decline. I I think that there is a pervasive idea in church work, again, my opinion here in in too many Christian churches, and I use that big big net there. Of of catering to people and their desires.
And and I don't wanna be misunderstood. I'm not talking about that it doesn't matter, if people are taking care of and and, you know, we don't wanna go down that road. But we very easily if we're not careful, can make it more about people than about pattern found in scripture, and what Yeah what true God calls for, what what pleases God. And so some of the common denominators, Ryan that I'm seeing in travels. Is number 1 churches that are growing are anchored in their core beliefs.
They are... They're not vac back and forth, but they're they're committed. They're not just believing it, but they're preaching it, and they're declaring it. And so they're anchored in core beliefs. Secondly, they're prayer.
Because prayer requires me to listen for the voice of god. And and again, this is a whole subject in its own, but when I am prayer and when churches are prayer, and they're full of prayer people they're hearing what God is saying. He's the creator. He's gonna give the insight. He's gonna give the ideas that may be the next great idea that would increase capacity.
And so prayer is something that I'm seeing in a lot of growing churches. And thirdly, I'm seeing churches that grow that are secure enough to try something new. We talked about that a little bit earlier. Try a new method, try something that hasn't been tried before. But then lastly, churches who are and leaders that are wise enough to assess regularly.
Mh. So that it's not just a... We start something and bless God until Jesus comes we're gonna do it, but we assess, and it might bring about great increase or it might be time to try something else. And so those were just some of the common denominators that I see in churches that are growing around the country right now. I love that.
That's that's really good. We're gonna end with this question and it's more of a personal question. What's 1 ritual or routine that helps Tim Ga, do what he does well, outside of prayer and devotion, of course. What's 1 ritual routine that helps you do what you do well. You know about a year and a half ago, maybe 2 years ago now Ryan.
I started praying 5 things every day. Mh. I tried to pray it every day. I prayed it this morning. And, I'm drawn to the book of James chapter 1 where the scripture says if any of you lack wisdom, let a mask of God who gives liberally and 1 version says doesn't hold it against You for asking.
So I need the wisdom of god. And I think the wisdom of God is knowing what to do when to do it, why to do it, how to do it. And so 5 things that I've been praying for for the last couple of years is God give me the wisdom first of all, to decide right. When I have a decision to make, and I ask you for the wisdom, help me to believe that you're gonna give me that wisdom. In fact, James said, if you ask wisdom, and then you go back on that.
You're a double minded man. Believe that he's gonna give it to you. Lord help me... Give me the wisdom to decide. Right?
Secondly, I say, Lord helped me to act right today. Let my conduct philippians 1 says this. Let my conduct be that which become at the gospel. Let my actions be such that it it represents you well on the earth, thirdly, I asked someone more to give me wisdom to talk right, you know, Psalm 19 and 14 says let the words of my mouth be acceptable on your site. And I know as leaders, especially Christian leaders a lot of what we do is verbal.
So I want my words to town. Not just when I'm in front of people, but in conversations. Lord help me, give me the wisdom to talk. Right. And then the third...
The the fourth and fifth ones are are tied together. I pray every day, Say, God, give me the wisdom to think right? Because in order to grow, I can't stop thinking. I can't check my brain at the door and say, I'm just gonna put it on cruise control. I have to keep thinking.
No. That same psalm 19 at 14 says let the meditations at My heart, what I think about, let it be acceptable to you, and then the fifth 1 is uniquely tied to that. I pray that God to give me wisdom to forget right. And here's what I mean by then. You know, Paul said, I'm forgetting those things that are behind and I'm pressing forward for the things that are ahead.
There's way too much information in the world right now to remember everything, And so I'm gonna forget something, but god help me to forget the things I need to forget, but remember the things I need to remember, and that even speaks to effectiveness in ministry. So that 5 full prayer. It really has has blessed me over the last couple of years. And I try to pray every single day. That's really good.
Really good. And something that I wanna... After we're done here, I wanna write this down and and, apply that to my prayers as well. That's a tremendous 5 things, and and you call that, I guess the overarching is the wisdom of God. Decide after right.
Talk right. Think right and forget right. That's right. That's right. That's very good.
Well, thank you so much. I I really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy, man. And, so grateful that you have given us your time here today pastor to get getty. And, if people wanna connect with you online in some way, where can they find you?
Sure. On x, it can find me at at Tim Ga just altogether, Facebook. My name Tim Ga as well on Instagram is, Tim Ga all lowercase together as well. I really appreciate Ryan the privilege to be on this, and I appreciate the work and the ministry that you do, you're helping us all I'll get better, and I deeply appreciate that. Well, thank you so much.
And So this concludes our show today. My name is Ryan Franklin. Thank you so much for joining us on the christian leader made simple podcast.
Copyright © 2025 Ryan Franklin. All rights reserved.
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